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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 7465356" data-attributes="member: 99817"><p>No it's not. You accused someone of confusing meta with abstract. If all things are abstract then this is a worthless observation.</p><p></p><p>The correct observation would be 'All things are abstract. There are subsets of abstract which are meta and not meta.'</p><p></p><p>But you didn't. You drew a distinction between meta and abstract and then proceeded from that distinction to make your wholly unsupported assertion that in fact D&D HP are abstract but not metagame, as if the abstraction removes the possibility of both abstract and metagame being present.</p><p></p><p>You now concede that this is not the case.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Given the same description, I could get very close to estimating that character's HP in Runequest 2.</p><p></p><p>So why are you struggling so hard to avoid the question when it's D&D HP?</p><p></p><p>You claim D&D HP are not metagame, but in-character knowledge. So use your in-character knowledge to tell me. I can do it for RQ2. Why can't you for D&D?</p><p></p><p>I'll tell you why, of course. It's because D&D HP are pure metagame. Some people then choose to pretend they aren't. But that doesn't make it not metagame in any analytical sense, it means they gain their enjoyment from a self-deception regarding the design of the game.</p><p></p><p>Which is fine, but it doesn't mean I've confused anything. I've simply revealed the emptiness at the centre of your misleading and completely false assertion that D&D HP are not metagame. They are.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="chaochou, post: 7465356, member: 99817"] No it's not. You accused someone of confusing meta with abstract. If all things are abstract then this is a worthless observation. The correct observation would be 'All things are abstract. There are subsets of abstract which are meta and not meta.' But you didn't. You drew a distinction between meta and abstract and then proceeded from that distinction to make your wholly unsupported assertion that in fact D&D HP are abstract but not metagame, as if the abstraction removes the possibility of both abstract and metagame being present. You now concede that this is not the case. Given the same description, I could get very close to estimating that character's HP in Runequest 2. So why are you struggling so hard to avoid the question when it's D&D HP? You claim D&D HP are not metagame, but in-character knowledge. So use your in-character knowledge to tell me. I can do it for RQ2. Why can't you for D&D? I'll tell you why, of course. It's because D&D HP are pure metagame. Some people then choose to pretend they aren't. But that doesn't make it not metagame in any analytical sense, it means they gain their enjoyment from a self-deception regarding the design of the game. Which is fine, but it doesn't mean I've confused anything. I've simply revealed the emptiness at the centre of your misleading and completely false assertion that D&D HP are not metagame. They are. [/QUOTE]
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