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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 7467716" data-attributes="member: 6698278"><p>There are several possibilities. You aren't the target of my comment. You are but it only progressed to that point and it started out okay. When I make a general comment about the thread, I am saying something about the conversation in general. I do believe in general this thread has degenerated due to way too much hair splitting and way to much ignoring of the original question.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Is beating the dungeon not a character motive?? In old school D&D, the most common motive was exploration and ultimately treasure seeking. My players fit that mold especially at lower levels. I always considered those motives to be entirely actor stance. They are greed adventurers seeking fame and fortune.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ahhh I think i see where you are going astray in all of this. I do not try to read my players minds or establish some character identity that is separate from the player. My players tended to play a braver more heroic version of themselves. Advice on surviving the dungeon though is just the sort of in game knowledge any character would want to have so I don't see that as non-actor. Ultimately it may again be the failure of existing terms and theories to fully describe my own groups style of play. That is why I gave the list of objectionable mechanics so that you could just focus on those and not worry about the underlying theory.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>People care about their "changing alignment" in real life and many believe there are no consequences. Surely it is not unheard of to have a world where people are worried about the favor of the Gods and where they stand morally. Again alignment is just an abstract word for an in-world concept.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think we all don't have much debate about director stance. I don't like it and have never seen it actually played in a game so it's not a worry of mine. The DM is the only world creator in my games.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. The DM checks to see if what the character said is possible. If there is no tavern then the DM says, you don't find a tavern. The DM just accepts a statement like "I go to the tavern" as "if possible or one exists then I go to the tavern" because in many instances the probability is high that one exists. Even so, my players are pretty careful and don't make any assumptions.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well for rocks, I would roll based on the probability a rock exists. My players would say "can I find a rock" by the way. In a situation where I was certain rocks exists thus the chance is 100% then I'd say okay you see and pick up a rock.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My players would say "We will hunt for our dinner, do we get anything?" The only time it truly is director is if the GM allows a rabbit when otherwise he would not have. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I think to be honest we are talking about entirely different things. Whenever I try to use a particular word, I chose metagame mainly to avoid offending, someone takes it in a different direction. The question is, do you at least know what I am talking about? The particular mechanics I listed have a commonality whatever you want to call it. Just make up a new name I don't care about terms. I only care about avoiding these types of mechanics. I don't care either to be pummeled because you think I'm inconsistent in what I like. I believe I am consistent but if you don't that is okay. I really only seek ideas for handling these sorts of mechanics. Even if I do decide 5e isn't for me I'm sure the techniques suggested could be used for another other D&D style game I might pick or even for one I might write/hack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 7467716, member: 6698278"] There are several possibilities. You aren't the target of my comment. You are but it only progressed to that point and it started out okay. When I make a general comment about the thread, I am saying something about the conversation in general. I do believe in general this thread has degenerated due to way too much hair splitting and way to much ignoring of the original question. Is beating the dungeon not a character motive?? In old school D&D, the most common motive was exploration and ultimately treasure seeking. My players fit that mold especially at lower levels. I always considered those motives to be entirely actor stance. They are greed adventurers seeking fame and fortune. Ahhh I think i see where you are going astray in all of this. I do not try to read my players minds or establish some character identity that is separate from the player. My players tended to play a braver more heroic version of themselves. Advice on surviving the dungeon though is just the sort of in game knowledge any character would want to have so I don't see that as non-actor. Ultimately it may again be the failure of existing terms and theories to fully describe my own groups style of play. That is why I gave the list of objectionable mechanics so that you could just focus on those and not worry about the underlying theory. People care about their "changing alignment" in real life and many believe there are no consequences. Surely it is not unheard of to have a world where people are worried about the favor of the Gods and where they stand morally. Again alignment is just an abstract word for an in-world concept. I think we all don't have much debate about director stance. I don't like it and have never seen it actually played in a game so it's not a worry of mine. The DM is the only world creator in my games. No. The DM checks to see if what the character said is possible. If there is no tavern then the DM says, you don't find a tavern. The DM just accepts a statement like "I go to the tavern" as "if possible or one exists then I go to the tavern" because in many instances the probability is high that one exists. Even so, my players are pretty careful and don't make any assumptions. Well for rocks, I would roll based on the probability a rock exists. My players would say "can I find a rock" by the way. In a situation where I was certain rocks exists thus the chance is 100% then I'd say okay you see and pick up a rock. My players would say "We will hunt for our dinner, do we get anything?" The only time it truly is director is if the GM allows a rabbit when otherwise he would not have. I think to be honest we are talking about entirely different things. Whenever I try to use a particular word, I chose metagame mainly to avoid offending, someone takes it in a different direction. The question is, do you at least know what I am talking about? The particular mechanics I listed have a commonality whatever you want to call it. Just make up a new name I don't care about terms. I only care about avoiding these types of mechanics. I don't care either to be pummeled because you think I'm inconsistent in what I like. I believe I am consistent but if you don't that is okay. I really only seek ideas for handling these sorts of mechanics. Even if I do decide 5e isn't for me I'm sure the techniques suggested could be used for another other D&D style game I might pick or even for one I might write/hack. [/QUOTE]
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