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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7564579" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I find this to be a fallacy. In ANY game system, if certain capabilities are available to the players then said game is going to assume the presence of those capabilities. There is, thus, no such thing as an 'actual power up' as opposed to a pseudo reward'. In AD&D if the DM rewards the PCs with the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords and a Holy Avenger +5, then surely the following challenges they are matched against from that point onward will scale to take those things into account. Thus it may be true that "Level 10" in AD&D by itself means less than it does in 4e, as there are relatively few guidelines as to what sort of rewards PCs should get at any given point in the level system of that game. It is fair to say that all level 10 4e PCs have roughly the same potency against a given encounter budget or SC of a given level/complexity, but is this really a bad thing? </p><p></p><p>Beyond that, how does this logic play out? If we accept that AD&D allows for these 'big rewards' then surely if a DM steadfastly withholds them, then aren't they denying their players an element of the game which they can expect? This leads us right back to the fallacy of 'actual power up', the existence of such power ups implies they will be used. Its an open question of pacing as to when (this really is not too much tied to what level they come into play, as in AD&D the DM is relatively free to provide for slow or fast level advancement). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This one is of course a matter of lived experience, so I'm in no way going to dispute what you experienced. My own experience with running 4e was that I was able to create exciting and engaging 'action scenes' pretty easily, and that these didn't have any specific tendency to bog down. I mean, I can remember several combats where things got 'stuck' for this or that reason, but I wouldn't say it was worse than in AD&D especially (where you could easily have encounters that were filled with 'whiff fest' where everyone needed at least a 15 or more to hit and 10 rounds could go by with nothing much happening). Moreover AD&D (and 3.x even more so) often commits the sin of leaving some of the PCs with nothing significant to do at all. The wizard without a useful spell, the thief once he did his one backstab, sometimes a fighter vs certain types of opponent, anyone that failed on a SOD. Nothing is slower than watching from the sidelines...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Can't disagree with this <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Everything is story! If exploration is there, it is because it is what the players WANT in their story!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7564579, member: 82106"] I find this to be a fallacy. In ANY game system, if certain capabilities are available to the players then said game is going to assume the presence of those capabilities. There is, thus, no such thing as an 'actual power up' as opposed to a pseudo reward'. In AD&D if the DM rewards the PCs with the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords and a Holy Avenger +5, then surely the following challenges they are matched against from that point onward will scale to take those things into account. Thus it may be true that "Level 10" in AD&D by itself means less than it does in 4e, as there are relatively few guidelines as to what sort of rewards PCs should get at any given point in the level system of that game. It is fair to say that all level 10 4e PCs have roughly the same potency against a given encounter budget or SC of a given level/complexity, but is this really a bad thing? Beyond that, how does this logic play out? If we accept that AD&D allows for these 'big rewards' then surely if a DM steadfastly withholds them, then aren't they denying their players an element of the game which they can expect? This leads us right back to the fallacy of 'actual power up', the existence of such power ups implies they will be used. Its an open question of pacing as to when (this really is not too much tied to what level they come into play, as in AD&D the DM is relatively free to provide for slow or fast level advancement). This one is of course a matter of lived experience, so I'm in no way going to dispute what you experienced. My own experience with running 4e was that I was able to create exciting and engaging 'action scenes' pretty easily, and that these didn't have any specific tendency to bog down. I mean, I can remember several combats where things got 'stuck' for this or that reason, but I wouldn't say it was worse than in AD&D especially (where you could easily have encounters that were filled with 'whiff fest' where everyone needed at least a 15 or more to hit and 10 rounds could go by with nothing much happening). Moreover AD&D (and 3.x even more so) often commits the sin of leaving some of the PCs with nothing significant to do at all. The wizard without a useful spell, the thief once he did his one backstab, sometimes a fighter vs certain types of opponent, anyone that failed on a SOD. Nothing is slower than watching from the sidelines... Can't disagree with this ;) Everything is story! If exploration is there, it is because it is what the players WANT in their story! [/QUOTE]
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