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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7576993" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>I'll concede this one is probably an exception.</p><p></p><p>Not always. For example a hidden sniper shooting an unaware sentry from long range is certainly a part of combat, but doesn't really fall into this definition of it.</p><p></p><p>I've been in poetry slams and believe me, they're far more combat than social! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Further, and this'll come up again below, some things/actions/activities either span multiple aspects simultaneously or move within themselves from one to another.</p><p></p><p>As written in 5e, no. But I find it a very easy step to take the idea, apply it universally, and use it as a general framework for analysing RPG play; particularly in terms of what happens in the fiction and why, as opposed to the game mechanics that get it there.</p><p></p><p>I'd see the actual joust as part of the combat aspect, with social overtones and-or potential consequences.</p><p></p><p>Regardless of how 5e puts it, I'm far more interested here in analysing what actually happens in the fiction and why (and how it might influence what happens next); and for these purposes really don't care what mechanics and-or resolution methods are used at the table in order to bring these events about. This puts me at odds with you, as you seem to be far more concerned with analysing the mechanics and letting the fiction just tag along.</p><p></p><p>Even there it tells me something of what's happening in the fiction (which is what matters, in the end), regardless of the techniques in use.</p><p></p><p>Mechanically, there's little to no overlap. Fine.</p><p></p><p>Fictionally, however, there's loads of overlap: on success the PCs have just travelled from point A to point B. Travel, even if points A and B are already known places, is part of the exploration aspect.</p><p></p><p>Where I'm thinking about them not as they relate to mechanics but in how they relate to and define the end-result fiction.</p><p></p><p>Again, what's happening at the table is almost irrelevant. What's happening in the fiction is travel, wich means exploration.</p><p></p><p>The fiction is what drives which aspect(s) is(are) being played at any given moment or in any given scene, and this is what I want to look at for my own games: are the various aspects (combat, social, exploration, downtime) showing up in the fiction too frequently, or not frequently enough, and with what degree of emphasis; and what would or should the right frequency and-or emphasis be for each?</p><p></p><p>A social skill challenge and a travel skill challenge use the same mechanics at the table in 4e, but the fiction defines one as social and the other as exploration.</p><p></p><p>This is relevant for a few reasons. </p><p></p><p>One, because the outcome and consequences in the fiction are likely to be quite different from a social challenge than a travel challenge.</p><p></p><p>Two, because in her game a GM and-or the players might want social fiction handled by different means than travel fiction (i.e. the fictional aspect defines what mechanics are used, rather than the reverse - it's always worked this way for combat, frex), meaning either 4e wouldn't be a suitable system in this case or it'd need some tweaking to work as desired.</p><p></p><p>And three, because it seems often social-aspect play is viewed and approached differently than exploration-aspect play - some tables take social-aspect play very seriously (that's where the drama comes from) while others groove on exploration and anything in the social aspect just means waiting longer for either combat or more exploring.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7576993, member: 29398"] I'll concede this one is probably an exception. Not always. For example a hidden sniper shooting an unaware sentry from long range is certainly a part of combat, but doesn't really fall into this definition of it. I've been in poetry slams and believe me, they're far more combat than social! :) Further, and this'll come up again below, some things/actions/activities either span multiple aspects simultaneously or move within themselves from one to another. As written in 5e, no. But I find it a very easy step to take the idea, apply it universally, and use it as a general framework for analysing RPG play; particularly in terms of what happens in the fiction and why, as opposed to the game mechanics that get it there. I'd see the actual joust as part of the combat aspect, with social overtones and-or potential consequences. Regardless of how 5e puts it, I'm far more interested here in analysing what actually happens in the fiction and why (and how it might influence what happens next); and for these purposes really don't care what mechanics and-or resolution methods are used at the table in order to bring these events about. This puts me at odds with you, as you seem to be far more concerned with analysing the mechanics and letting the fiction just tag along. Even there it tells me something of what's happening in the fiction (which is what matters, in the end), regardless of the techniques in use. Mechanically, there's little to no overlap. Fine. Fictionally, however, there's loads of overlap: on success the PCs have just travelled from point A to point B. Travel, even if points A and B are already known places, is part of the exploration aspect. Where I'm thinking about them not as they relate to mechanics but in how they relate to and define the end-result fiction. Again, what's happening at the table is almost irrelevant. What's happening in the fiction is travel, wich means exploration. The fiction is what drives which aspect(s) is(are) being played at any given moment or in any given scene, and this is what I want to look at for my own games: are the various aspects (combat, social, exploration, downtime) showing up in the fiction too frequently, or not frequently enough, and with what degree of emphasis; and what would or should the right frequency and-or emphasis be for each? A social skill challenge and a travel skill challenge use the same mechanics at the table in 4e, but the fiction defines one as social and the other as exploration. This is relevant for a few reasons. One, because the outcome and consequences in the fiction are likely to be quite different from a social challenge than a travel challenge. Two, because in her game a GM and-or the players might want social fiction handled by different means than travel fiction (i.e. the fictional aspect defines what mechanics are used, rather than the reverse - it's always worked this way for combat, frex), meaning either 4e wouldn't be a suitable system in this case or it'd need some tweaking to work as desired. And three, because it seems often social-aspect play is viewed and approached differently than exploration-aspect play - some tables take social-aspect play very seriously (that's where the drama comes from) while others groove on exploration and anything in the social aspect just means waiting longer for either combat or more exploring. [/QUOTE]
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