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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7577869" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Value system differences. I believe what [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] is putting a high value on is inducing a mental state during play which is focused on "thinking like the character", not on achieving goals or narrative, nor anything else particularly. Narrative serves then simply as a medium by which the proper inputs arrive at the players and they can adjust their pretended character mental state and shared understanding of the fictive world they form a part of. Other things are there, gamist considerations, player goals, etc. but only in a secondary place. At least this is how it looks if idealized, actual play is rarely so clear-cut. </p><p> [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION] is not really THAT interested in the character mental state and maybe it is simply a part of the general fiction state which conditions how the game proceedes. It may have mechanical constraints and systems associated with it, etc. The content of the fiction and narrative, and the fun derived from "doing cool stuff" (or something) prevails. </p><p></p><p>I'd note that D&D (even 4e) has an absolute insistence on PC's thought process being entirely free of mechanical constraints. The unspoken assumption being that this is the domain of 'RP' in which it is the player's job/prerogative to model the PC's mental state without constraints. Well, I would note that there ARE some constraints, but they seem, mostly, to be aimed at insuring more consistent modeling. Alignment for instance, ideally, provides a scaffold on which to hang the character's different proclivities and traits (albeit it doesn't necessarily work too well). Alignment change punishments then simply show up as 'sticks' to encourage this consistency. There are also some things like charms and whatnot, but those fall basically into the category of gotchas that are there to act as penalties for lack of skilled play, much like any trap or poison monster, etc.</p><p></p><p>So, in this sense D&D has always had a big giant 'thing' going for enabling this kind of play. This also explains why 5e really can't do much in the way of narrative 'story' type player-side mechanics, except as very mild optional add-ons, or alignment-like 'stuff' (personality traits). </p><p></p><p>4e gets a couple of things explained here, one being the hostility to it, and the other being the lack of really explicit discussion of and more pervasive implementation of story mechanics or player-side mechanics. They are sort of 'unwritten rules' but not very explicit and you can basically play 4e like 2e if you want from the RP perspective.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7577869, member: 82106"] Value system differences. I believe what [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] is putting a high value on is inducing a mental state during play which is focused on "thinking like the character", not on achieving goals or narrative, nor anything else particularly. Narrative serves then simply as a medium by which the proper inputs arrive at the players and they can adjust their pretended character mental state and shared understanding of the fictive world they form a part of. Other things are there, gamist considerations, player goals, etc. but only in a secondary place. At least this is how it looks if idealized, actual play is rarely so clear-cut. [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION] is not really THAT interested in the character mental state and maybe it is simply a part of the general fiction state which conditions how the game proceedes. It may have mechanical constraints and systems associated with it, etc. The content of the fiction and narrative, and the fun derived from "doing cool stuff" (or something) prevails. I'd note that D&D (even 4e) has an absolute insistence on PC's thought process being entirely free of mechanical constraints. The unspoken assumption being that this is the domain of 'RP' in which it is the player's job/prerogative to model the PC's mental state without constraints. Well, I would note that there ARE some constraints, but they seem, mostly, to be aimed at insuring more consistent modeling. Alignment for instance, ideally, provides a scaffold on which to hang the character's different proclivities and traits (albeit it doesn't necessarily work too well). Alignment change punishments then simply show up as 'sticks' to encourage this consistency. There are also some things like charms and whatnot, but those fall basically into the category of gotchas that are there to act as penalties for lack of skilled play, much like any trap or poison monster, etc. So, in this sense D&D has always had a big giant 'thing' going for enabling this kind of play. This also explains why 5e really can't do much in the way of narrative 'story' type player-side mechanics, except as very mild optional add-ons, or alignment-like 'stuff' (personality traits). 4e gets a couple of things explained here, one being the hostility to it, and the other being the lack of really explicit discussion of and more pervasive implementation of story mechanics or player-side mechanics. They are sort of 'unwritten rules' but not very explicit and you can basically play 4e like 2e if you want from the RP perspective. [/QUOTE]
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