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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7580440" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>This is the same kind of fear of abuse that people worried about Mother May I are citing. They see it as a GM having the ability to decide things that could lead to abuse. In this case, the players are allowed to decide things, and you're immediately concerned about abuse. "If it can be done once, then why not every time?" applies to both concerns. </p><p></p><p>I hope that at this point you at least understand how a game's design or how a group chooses to play it could be cause for concern. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's perfectly fine. You should definitely do what works for you. I was not asking you to actually change your ways, just asking you to think about how it would go if you did.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not really concerned with how HP are described in the book because that's changed over the years, and everyone does it the way they prefer. </p><p></p><p>But if you're telling me that your players are equally cautious when they have 110 HP as they are when they have 14 HP, I would be amazed. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I appreciate you making the clarification. I don't think it's always been clear that you are talking about your game. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know if the fact that new players won't know about vulnerabilities is what's factored into difficulty so much as the fact that they have resistance to standard attacks or regeneration and the like is what's factored in. A troll is worth whatever XP its worth because it can regenerate, not because characters know or don't know it can regenerate. </p><p></p><p>If your PCs learn about troll vulnerability through some reasonable in game means, do you then lower the XP reward for any trolls they face? If they meet a merchant guard captain who tells them "there are trolls in the hills....make sure you burn them, or else they'll regenerate" is this an unfair advantage? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So I think that what's really the core of the disagreement is the "when" that these things are decided. Would you agree with that? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The purpose of backgrounds is informational, yes, but I would say more importantly that it's also to grant context to the character's place in the world. This can manifest in a variety of ways. Why can't some of them be advantageous to the character? </p><p></p><p>I think that "background is just fluff" and "I might one day include the PC background" are pretty telling that you expect DM authority on these matters. And again, that's fine....but this is kind of why some folks are critical of this method. They don't want their backgrounds to be "just fluff". They want the GM to actively involve their background into play, or they want a game that allows this to happen. They want the story to be their character's story to a large extent, and not something that could happen to any character. </p><p></p><p>Look at Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.....both have background elements that come into play heavily in the Star Wars stories. Luke's is more central to the overall story, but Han's is also very important, too....it provides him with motivation, characterization, context in the fictional world, and complications when his past comes back to bite him. </p><p></p><p>Ideally, we don't go into Star Wars knowing all these details. They emerge as we watch the fiction. Han Solo's background isn't given to us ahead of time in the "Episode IV" scroll. We learn it as we watch the movie....he's a smuggler....he owes a dangerous person a debt....and so on. Those details can also emerge through play in an RPG, rather than being pre-determined. This is the kind of "Discovery" that I think is what [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] is talking about. </p><p></p><p>So, if a player in a hypothetical game decides to play a smuggler, and a hypothetical GM decides to treat that as just fluff....don't you think that a huge opportunity for a game with potentially strong player investment is being missed?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7580440, member: 6785785"] This is the same kind of fear of abuse that people worried about Mother May I are citing. They see it as a GM having the ability to decide things that could lead to abuse. In this case, the players are allowed to decide things, and you're immediately concerned about abuse. "If it can be done once, then why not every time?" applies to both concerns. I hope that at this point you at least understand how a game's design or how a group chooses to play it could be cause for concern. That's perfectly fine. You should definitely do what works for you. I was not asking you to actually change your ways, just asking you to think about how it would go if you did. I'm not really concerned with how HP are described in the book because that's changed over the years, and everyone does it the way they prefer. But if you're telling me that your players are equally cautious when they have 110 HP as they are when they have 14 HP, I would be amazed. I appreciate you making the clarification. I don't think it's always been clear that you are talking about your game. I don't know if the fact that new players won't know about vulnerabilities is what's factored into difficulty so much as the fact that they have resistance to standard attacks or regeneration and the like is what's factored in. A troll is worth whatever XP its worth because it can regenerate, not because characters know or don't know it can regenerate. If your PCs learn about troll vulnerability through some reasonable in game means, do you then lower the XP reward for any trolls they face? If they meet a merchant guard captain who tells them "there are trolls in the hills....make sure you burn them, or else they'll regenerate" is this an unfair advantage? So I think that what's really the core of the disagreement is the "when" that these things are decided. Would you agree with that? The purpose of backgrounds is informational, yes, but I would say more importantly that it's also to grant context to the character's place in the world. This can manifest in a variety of ways. Why can't some of them be advantageous to the character? I think that "background is just fluff" and "I might one day include the PC background" are pretty telling that you expect DM authority on these matters. And again, that's fine....but this is kind of why some folks are critical of this method. They don't want their backgrounds to be "just fluff". They want the GM to actively involve their background into play, or they want a game that allows this to happen. They want the story to be their character's story to a large extent, and not something that could happen to any character. Look at Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.....both have background elements that come into play heavily in the Star Wars stories. Luke's is more central to the overall story, but Han's is also very important, too....it provides him with motivation, characterization, context in the fictional world, and complications when his past comes back to bite him. Ideally, we don't go into Star Wars knowing all these details. They emerge as we watch the fiction. Han Solo's background isn't given to us ahead of time in the "Episode IV" scroll. We learn it as we watch the movie....he's a smuggler....he owes a dangerous person a debt....and so on. Those details can also emerge through play in an RPG, rather than being pre-determined. This is the kind of "Discovery" that I think is what [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] is talking about. So, if a player in a hypothetical game decides to play a smuggler, and a hypothetical GM decides to treat that as just fluff....don't you think that a huge opportunity for a game with potentially strong player investment is being missed? [/QUOTE]
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