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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7580662" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm not being shortsighted. I'm saying that being offered a quest from my hermit to kill some orcs is not very dramatic or character-driven roleplaying (ie it lacks MEAT).</p><p></p><p>This comes through in the questions you pose (as opposed to the "hundreds of other<s>" that you leave as an exercise for the reader):</s></p><p><s></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>Will the do what the hermit asks and abandon others that need them? How will they help him if they do decide to help? Will they refuse him? How will they refuse him? How does the hermit react to rejection?</p><p></s></p><p><s>The only stakes that you identify are <em>abandoning others</em> and <em>upsestting the hermit</em>.</s></p><p><s></s></p><p><s>Let's take a well-known example and contrast:</s></p><p><s></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>Luke Skywalker has to choose between <em>abandoning <u>his family who are dependent upon him</u> to help them with their farm</em> and <em>upsetting the hermit <u>who knew his father and can mentor him into a wider world</u></em>; </p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s></p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>Later on, he has to choose between <em>abandoning the hermit to his fate,<u> as the hermit directs him to</u></em> and <em>helping the hermit <u>who will otherwise surely die, even though the hermit doesn't want this help</u></em>;</p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s></p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>Later on again, he has to choose between <em>abandoning <u>his friends</u></em> and <em>upsetting the hermits <u>who have placed their hope in him as the last of their order</u></em>.</p><p></s></p><p><s>Those aren't the only choices that Luke has to make, but are the main hermit-related ones. And in each case there are elements of the situation (which I've helpfully underlined) that make the stakes more than simply <em>do I help A or do I help B, given that I can't do both</em>.</s></p><p><s></s></p><p><s>It's quite possible to have a RPG give rise to choices for players that are laden with stakes in that sort of way. In my experience, however, it's almost impossible to achieve them in a game in which everything that comes into the fiction, and every player decision about his/her PC, is gate-kept by the GM in the way that you advocate for. And nothing that I've read about others' experiences, nor any more abstract or theoretical reflection on the art and techniques of RPGing, has led me to doubt that my experiences are a good guide here.</s></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7580662, member: 42582"] I'm not being shortsighted. I'm saying that being offered a quest from my hermit to kill some orcs is not very dramatic or character-driven roleplaying (ie it lacks MEAT). This comes through in the questions you pose (as opposed to the "hundreds of other[s]" that you leave as an exercise for the reader): [indent]Will the do what the hermit asks and abandon others that need them? How will they help him if they do decide to help? Will they refuse him? How will they refuse him? How does the hermit react to rejection?[/indent] The only stakes that you identify are [I]abandoning others[/I] and [I]upsestting the hermit[/I]. Let's take a well-known example and contrast: [indent]Luke Skywalker has to choose between [i]abandoning [U]his family who are dependent upon him[/U] to help them with their farm[/I] and [I]upsetting the hermit [U]who knew his father and can mentor him into a wider world[/U][/I]; Later on, he has to choose between [I]abandoning the hermit to his fate,[U] as the hermit directs him to[/U][/i] and [i]helping the hermit [U]who will otherwise surely die, even though the hermit doesn't want this help[/U][/I]; Later on again, he has to choose between [I]abandoning [U]his friends[/U][/I] and [I]upsetting the hermits [U]who have placed their hope in him as the last of their order[/U][/I].[/indent] Those aren't the only choices that Luke has to make, but are the main hermit-related ones. And in each case there are elements of the situation (which I've helpfully underlined) that make the stakes more than simply [I]do I help A or do I help B, given that I can't do both[/I]. It's quite possible to have a RPG give rise to choices for players that are laden with stakes in that sort of way. In my experience, however, it's almost impossible to achieve them in a game in which everything that comes into the fiction, and every player decision about his/her PC, is gate-kept by the GM in the way that you advocate for. And nothing that I've read about others' experiences, nor any more abstract or theoretical reflection on the art and techniques of RPGing, has led me to doubt that my experiences are a good guide here.[/s] [/QUOTE]
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