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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7580899" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Fair enough.</p><p></p><p>As would I were someone to hit nobility on the random chart; I've had to do just this a few times in the past.</p><p></p><p>But note that the 5e example still has the noble status being determined at char-gen along with the background, rather than dropped into play on the fly. It's the dropped-into-play-on-the-fly bit I have problems with, in that a) chances are it's being done just to gain an advantage in the here and now, and b) as the PC has thus always been a noble who knows how much previous play would have to be looked askance at - or worse, outright retconned - had this information been available all along.</p><p></p><p>Fair enough, but that's the arc the overall campaign will take regardless. (as opposed to, say, the 4e approach where the PCs are already heroes at 1st level)</p><p></p><p>You think they don't? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The difference being that in genre fiction at least someone (the author) knows all along that the character has a hidden noble heritage. In the reveal-on-the-fly instance in an RPG the DM didn't know ahead of time and it's entirely possible the player didn't either, if this decision was made on a whim; and that's my objection: had this been known all along even if just by the one player and the DM the odds are high that the player would have approached some things differently during the PC's adventuring career up to that point, and there's a chance the DM might have tried to work something in as well.</p><p></p><p>I don't see this as Discovery (in either big D or small d terms), I see it as nothing more than a headache for the DM - and maybe the player(s) - as they retcon the fiction to fit this new info in.</p><p></p><p>And by the way, did I mention there's nothing more evil than retcons? </p><p></p><p>How?</p><p></p><p>How can I do anything with the idea of Falstaff in fact being King Falstaff if neither I nor his player know he's a king? If I arbitrarily introduced this as DM I'd likely get in trouble, and if the player arbitrarily introduces it then that means he's been a king all along...which leads right back to retcons.</p><p></p><p>If they wait for the hour my DM instinct wouldn't say anything if they decided not to wait for another hour.</p><p></p><p>It's if the scout dies ten minutes in and suddenly the party decide to - fancy that - get on the move after ten minutes that my DM instinct flies a red flag.</p><p></p><p>Maybe they're not going to find that out.</p><p></p><p>All they know is that she didn't return. Is she captured? Dead? Dying at the bottom of a cliff somewhere because she slipped and fell? Teleported halfway round the world? On her way back to town having abandoned the party and mission?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7580899, member: 29398"] Fair enough. As would I were someone to hit nobility on the random chart; I've had to do just this a few times in the past. But note that the 5e example still has the noble status being determined at char-gen along with the background, rather than dropped into play on the fly. It's the dropped-into-play-on-the-fly bit I have problems with, in that a) chances are it's being done just to gain an advantage in the here and now, and b) as the PC has thus always been a noble who knows how much previous play would have to be looked askance at - or worse, outright retconned - had this information been available all along. Fair enough, but that's the arc the overall campaign will take regardless. (as opposed to, say, the 4e approach where the PCs are already heroes at 1st level) You think they don't? :) The difference being that in genre fiction at least someone (the author) knows all along that the character has a hidden noble heritage. In the reveal-on-the-fly instance in an RPG the DM didn't know ahead of time and it's entirely possible the player didn't either, if this decision was made on a whim; and that's my objection: had this been known all along even if just by the one player and the DM the odds are high that the player would have approached some things differently during the PC's adventuring career up to that point, and there's a chance the DM might have tried to work something in as well. I don't see this as Discovery (in either big D or small d terms), I see it as nothing more than a headache for the DM - and maybe the player(s) - as they retcon the fiction to fit this new info in. And by the way, did I mention there's nothing more evil than retcons? How? How can I do anything with the idea of Falstaff in fact being King Falstaff if neither I nor his player know he's a king? If I arbitrarily introduced this as DM I'd likely get in trouble, and if the player arbitrarily introduces it then that means he's been a king all along...which leads right back to retcons. If they wait for the hour my DM instinct wouldn't say anything if they decided not to wait for another hour. It's if the scout dies ten minutes in and suddenly the party decide to - fancy that - get on the move after ten minutes that my DM instinct flies a red flag. Maybe they're not going to find that out. All they know is that she didn't return. Is she captured? Dead? Dying at the bottom of a cliff somewhere because she slipped and fell? Teleported halfway round the world? On her way back to town having abandoned the party and mission? [/QUOTE]
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