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A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7581295" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I don't have a hard time understanding Max's reasons for considering metagaming cheating. I simply disagree, and in the example of the troll and uncle (and therefore similar game situations where a player is involved in deciding what hi character does or does not know), I don't see how it can be considered metagaming. My character knows about trolls because of his uncle. </p><p></p><p>If that is not allowed in a game because the DM decides that it's metagaming, then that's something I would disagree with, and so that is what I'm challenging. It's not metagaming, and if it's categorized as such, then I think that's a case of the DM resorting to Mother May I. </p><p></p><p>To put it another way: there are two options to pick from, described below. In both cases, the players know about troll vulnerabilities. Which would you prefer? </p><p></p><p>- The characters encounter trolls. The players go through the encounter playing their characters as if they do not know about trolls and fire. They continue until they get to some point where they can "justify" the use of fire, and then they finish off the trolls. </p><p></p><p>- The characters encounter trolls. One player has his character say "These things look like Trolls! My Uncle Elmo told me the only way to be sure they're dead is to burn them!" and the players immediately deploy fire based attacks, and they finish off the trolls.</p><p></p><p>The first one may be fun for some....who am I to question or judge anyone's idea of fun? But what it doesn't do is prevent metagaming. In my opinion, it makes the entire encounter revolve around metagaming.....because the players spend much of their time wondering "when can I use fire? When can I bring my out of game knowledge to bear by justifying it in the fiction?" They go through all kinds of hoops to justify the use, and we can never actually know if the answer is truly sufficient because there is no actual mystery to preserve. No one is actually surprised by the revelation. There's no learning happening.</p><p></p><p>The second option just gets on with things. It's kind of like a band-aid. The first option is where you peel it slowly in an attempt to mitigate the sting, but really all you're doing is drawing it out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7581295, member: 6785785"] I don't have a hard time understanding Max's reasons for considering metagaming cheating. I simply disagree, and in the example of the troll and uncle (and therefore similar game situations where a player is involved in deciding what hi character does or does not know), I don't see how it can be considered metagaming. My character knows about trolls because of his uncle. If that is not allowed in a game because the DM decides that it's metagaming, then that's something I would disagree with, and so that is what I'm challenging. It's not metagaming, and if it's categorized as such, then I think that's a case of the DM resorting to Mother May I. To put it another way: there are two options to pick from, described below. In both cases, the players know about troll vulnerabilities. Which would you prefer? - The characters encounter trolls. The players go through the encounter playing their characters as if they do not know about trolls and fire. They continue until they get to some point where they can "justify" the use of fire, and then they finish off the trolls. - The characters encounter trolls. One player has his character say "These things look like Trolls! My Uncle Elmo told me the only way to be sure they're dead is to burn them!" and the players immediately deploy fire based attacks, and they finish off the trolls. The first one may be fun for some....who am I to question or judge anyone's idea of fun? But what it doesn't do is prevent metagaming. In my opinion, it makes the entire encounter revolve around metagaming.....because the players spend much of their time wondering "when can I use fire? When can I bring my out of game knowledge to bear by justifying it in the fiction?" They go through all kinds of hoops to justify the use, and we can never actually know if the answer is truly sufficient because there is no actual mystery to preserve. No one is actually surprised by the revelation. There's no learning happening. The second option just gets on with things. It's kind of like a band-aid. The first option is where you peel it slowly in an attempt to mitigate the sting, but really all you're doing is drawing it out. [/QUOTE]
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