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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
A good wizard/fighter build?
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 3273915" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>1. Because it does more damage--at least at high levels.</p><p></p><p>Lightning bolt=5-10d6 damage, averaging 17.5-35 with a save for half.</p><p></p><p>Whirling Blade=weapon damage+int or cha bonus+weapon abilities+feats with an attack roll</p><p>If we assume a greatsword wielding wizard with a 20 int at 8th level (about when the eldritch Knight could start casting lightning bolts) and a +1 frost weapon, without power Attack, that's 16.5 points of average damage on a successful hit. It's not quite 21 points (or 28 points with practiced spellcaster) that the lightning bolt nets, but it's a 2nd level spell. Now, let's say the character is fighting something with a low AC and he power attacks for five points. Now it's 26.5 points of average damage on a successful attack. Not bad for a 2nd level spell vis a vis a 3rd level spell. If you figure that a two handed weapon gets 1.5 Int bonus, it's 18.5 and 28.5 damage.</p><p></p><p>But if you really want to see the benefit, crank it up a notch: A 17th level wizard with a +1 holy wounding greatsword greater magic weaponed up to +4 and a 24 Int.</p><p></p><p>Average damage from a straight-up whirling blade without Power Attack: 25 points of damage and 1 point of Con.</p><p></p><p>Against foes with low AC, he Power Attacks with abandon (14 point Power Attack) and does an average of 49 points of damage +1 Con.</p><p></p><p>2. Because it only damages enemies. You can't (usually) lightning bolt through your friends without hurting them. You can whirling blade through them.</p><p></p><p>3. Because it can be dramatically boosted in power by expending more resources.</p><p></p><p>Remember those Eldritch Knights we discussed before? Lets say the first guy really needs to drop a line of orcs. If he casts lighning bolt, he gets his 28 or 14 damage and that's as good as he can do. On the other hand, he can use a first level slot to cast blades of fire and now he's doing 23 points of damage without Power Attack or 33 points of damage with Power Attack. </p><p></p><p>If he wants to go all out, he can use Arcane Strike to sacrifice a third level spell and do an average of 30.5 damage without Power Attack or 40.5 damage with Power Attack.</p><p></p><p>The 17th level Eldritch Knight can do much better than that: If he has fires of purity and drops an 8th level spell, he does 60 points of damage +1 con without Power attack and 88 +1 con points of damage with full Power Attack. If he has other buffs (sonic weapon, etc) active, it will go even higher.</p><p></p><p>With lightning bolt, you get a lightning bolt. With whirling blade, you have the ability to dump a bunch of resources and get a super whirling blade.</p><p></p><p>4. Because it doesn't suffer from energy resistance or Spell Resistance.</p><p></p><p>Fighting demons? Casting electrical damage is a waste, but whirling blade will damage them every time (as long as you have the right kind of weapon). In general, a melee focused fighter/mage will have an easier time penetrating DR than either SR or energy resistance.</p><p></p><p>5. Because whirling blade operates on an attack roll rather than a saving throw. Maybe at 6th level, it's easier to get a foe to fail a save than it is to hit them in melee. By mid levels, however, the attack roll will often be a near auto-hit even with a fair amount of Power Attack. On the other hand, saving throws escalate fast enough that its rarely more than a 30% chance your enemy will take full damage. And lightning bolt allows evasion too.</p><p></p><p>6. Because whirling blade is improved by the feats and equipment choices that a fighter/mage already makes in order to be a good fighter/mage. Lighting bolt is not improved by those feats or equipment and, indeed competes with melee combat for feat selection. Got Greater Spell Focus: Evocation and Spell Penetration and a 3rd level pearl of power? You'll get more out of lightning bolt. Got Power Attack, Improved Critical, and a +1 keen shock falchion of wounding? You'll get more out of whirling blade. For a fighter/mage, the second feat/equipment selection is a more generally advantageous one than the first.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 3273915, member: 3146"] 1. Because it does more damage--at least at high levels. Lightning bolt=5-10d6 damage, averaging 17.5-35 with a save for half. Whirling Blade=weapon damage+int or cha bonus+weapon abilities+feats with an attack roll If we assume a greatsword wielding wizard with a 20 int at 8th level (about when the eldritch Knight could start casting lightning bolts) and a +1 frost weapon, without power Attack, that's 16.5 points of average damage on a successful hit. It's not quite 21 points (or 28 points with practiced spellcaster) that the lightning bolt nets, but it's a 2nd level spell. Now, let's say the character is fighting something with a low AC and he power attacks for five points. Now it's 26.5 points of average damage on a successful attack. Not bad for a 2nd level spell vis a vis a 3rd level spell. If you figure that a two handed weapon gets 1.5 Int bonus, it's 18.5 and 28.5 damage. But if you really want to see the benefit, crank it up a notch: A 17th level wizard with a +1 holy wounding greatsword greater magic weaponed up to +4 and a 24 Int. Average damage from a straight-up whirling blade without Power Attack: 25 points of damage and 1 point of Con. Against foes with low AC, he Power Attacks with abandon (14 point Power Attack) and does an average of 49 points of damage +1 Con. 2. Because it only damages enemies. You can't (usually) lightning bolt through your friends without hurting them. You can whirling blade through them. 3. Because it can be dramatically boosted in power by expending more resources. Remember those Eldritch Knights we discussed before? Lets say the first guy really needs to drop a line of orcs. If he casts lighning bolt, he gets his 28 or 14 damage and that's as good as he can do. On the other hand, he can use a first level slot to cast blades of fire and now he's doing 23 points of damage without Power Attack or 33 points of damage with Power Attack. If he wants to go all out, he can use Arcane Strike to sacrifice a third level spell and do an average of 30.5 damage without Power Attack or 40.5 damage with Power Attack. The 17th level Eldritch Knight can do much better than that: If he has fires of purity and drops an 8th level spell, he does 60 points of damage +1 con without Power attack and 88 +1 con points of damage with full Power Attack. If he has other buffs (sonic weapon, etc) active, it will go even higher. With lightning bolt, you get a lightning bolt. With whirling blade, you have the ability to dump a bunch of resources and get a super whirling blade. 4. Because it doesn't suffer from energy resistance or Spell Resistance. Fighting demons? Casting electrical damage is a waste, but whirling blade will damage them every time (as long as you have the right kind of weapon). In general, a melee focused fighter/mage will have an easier time penetrating DR than either SR or energy resistance. 5. Because whirling blade operates on an attack roll rather than a saving throw. Maybe at 6th level, it's easier to get a foe to fail a save than it is to hit them in melee. By mid levels, however, the attack roll will often be a near auto-hit even with a fair amount of Power Attack. On the other hand, saving throws escalate fast enough that its rarely more than a 30% chance your enemy will take full damage. And lightning bolt allows evasion too. 6. Because whirling blade is improved by the feats and equipment choices that a fighter/mage already makes in order to be a good fighter/mage. Lighting bolt is not improved by those feats or equipment and, indeed competes with melee combat for feat selection. Got Greater Spell Focus: Evocation and Spell Penetration and a 3rd level pearl of power? You'll get more out of lightning bolt. Got Power Attack, Improved Critical, and a +1 keen shock falchion of wounding? You'll get more out of whirling blade. For a fighter/mage, the second feat/equipment selection is a more generally advantageous one than the first. [/QUOTE]
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