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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9247563" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Narrative is the presentation of story. In terms that have been used for at least the last 20 years in RPG theory; 'fiction' refers to things established either before or during play; narrative and story are indeed very closely related and sometimes used interchangeably; and 'transcript' is generally used to refer to a literal rendition of an instance of play without regard to its qualities as narrative/story. I would further point out that 'narrative' as a preposition is often used to qualify the TELLING of the story, and the word derives from 'to narrate'. I withhold any opinion on 'post-classical narratologists'. I think someone up thread touched on 'implied narrative' and in some instances that may be a reasonable way to view a piece of fiction, but then questions have to be asked as to how that relates to play. I guess in theory a player could utilize this technique, maybe I've even seen it done to a degree in terms of using backstory to imply things about a PC. Still, this is a rather corner-case kind of thing, but maybe you are advocating for this sort of technique as a cornerstone of neo-trad techniques? It could be interesting!</p><p></p><p>Nobody is arguing about what Smith of Wootton Major is, so I'm not sure what this even means in relation to my point about the LotR king lists. I also agree there that in RPG (setting authoring) terms the LotR king lists are certainly 'fiction'. What it is not is NARRATIVE, though I'm certainly willing to examine specific cases in the sense of being 'implied narrative'. I don't think if it is implied narrative it changes my argument though in the sense that this will now simply be trad-like pre-authored setting fiction which is agreed to at the start of "lets play in Middle Earth" presumably. These sorts of stories (setting myths essentially) simply form part of the backdrop of the setting, taking on typically some sort of temporal character and being aimed at extending the setting's lore to remote times and perhaps explicating the current situation. Maybe, again, that might become meta-plot, which seems to have potential in neo-trad as fodder for establishing the trajectory of play, much in the way [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] referred to a few pages back.</p><p></p><p>Honestly I am a bit fuzzy on what, in practice, would be the dividing line between these. They both involve player-directed and PC-centered story arcs which generally reinforce and explicate the character-as-defined, rather than challenging that conception. Given that the starting point for this taxonomy was 'six cultures of play' which doesn't distinguish these as separate concepts I've not really seen where they are very distinct!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9247563, member: 82106"] Narrative is the presentation of story. In terms that have been used for at least the last 20 years in RPG theory; 'fiction' refers to things established either before or during play; narrative and story are indeed very closely related and sometimes used interchangeably; and 'transcript' is generally used to refer to a literal rendition of an instance of play without regard to its qualities as narrative/story. I would further point out that 'narrative' as a preposition is often used to qualify the TELLING of the story, and the word derives from 'to narrate'. I withhold any opinion on 'post-classical narratologists'. I think someone up thread touched on 'implied narrative' and in some instances that may be a reasonable way to view a piece of fiction, but then questions have to be asked as to how that relates to play. I guess in theory a player could utilize this technique, maybe I've even seen it done to a degree in terms of using backstory to imply things about a PC. Still, this is a rather corner-case kind of thing, but maybe you are advocating for this sort of technique as a cornerstone of neo-trad techniques? It could be interesting! Nobody is arguing about what Smith of Wootton Major is, so I'm not sure what this even means in relation to my point about the LotR king lists. I also agree there that in RPG (setting authoring) terms the LotR king lists are certainly 'fiction'. What it is not is NARRATIVE, though I'm certainly willing to examine specific cases in the sense of being 'implied narrative'. I don't think if it is implied narrative it changes my argument though in the sense that this will now simply be trad-like pre-authored setting fiction which is agreed to at the start of "lets play in Middle Earth" presumably. These sorts of stories (setting myths essentially) simply form part of the backdrop of the setting, taking on typically some sort of temporal character and being aimed at extending the setting's lore to remote times and perhaps explicating the current situation. Maybe, again, that might become meta-plot, which seems to have potential in neo-trad as fodder for establishing the trajectory of play, much in the way [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] referred to a few pages back. Honestly I am a bit fuzzy on what, in practice, would be the dividing line between these. They both involve player-directed and PC-centered story arcs which generally reinforce and explicate the character-as-defined, rather than challenging that conception. Given that the starting point for this taxonomy was 'six cultures of play' which doesn't distinguish these as separate concepts I've not really seen where they are very distinct! [/QUOTE]
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