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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7190206" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Essentials. Pretty sure. 4e, IIRC, was point buy, but rolling was still an option, as was array.</p><p></p><p> Your assertion is quantitatively false, and your view baseless. </p><p> 4e classes had large selections of unique powers. No spells were re-cycled into everyone's list as in other editions, that's the opposite of sameness. Each power had it's own flavor text, that you could change if you found it in any way 'bland.' Just like, in 5e, if you as a DM, find a rule broken, you can change it, you, as a player, in 4e, if you found a power or character bland, could re-imagine it (re-skin or re-fluff) it to something spicier.</p><p></p><p> ...page 42. </p><p></p><p>:shrug:</p><p></p><p> I used the Archery 'build' of the Ranger for that. Very simple to play. Even the most determinedly just-roll-to-hit player starts using the encounters & dailies eventually, but, until he does, spamming Twin Strike like a classic D&D archer with RoF 2, doesn't leave him underpowered. </p><p></p><p>Of course, Essentials introduced the Slayer for that de rigeur 'simple fighter' (punishment for not wanting to play a caster) trope. </p><p></p><p>In 3.x, I'd always steer new players towards the Barbarian rather than the Fighter. Not only was it much more forgiving to build, and earlier-blooming, it was fairly forgiving to play, exciting, and taught you the value of managing a daily resource.</p><p></p><p>In 5e, the Berserker is still a darn good introductory choice, though I've been sufficiently bitten by the nostalgia bug that I run basic-pdf pregens for new players.</p><p></p><p>But, frankly, most 4e classes were easier for a genuinely-new player to grok than prior-edition classes, past fighters included, because the system was just that much more consistent, clear, intuitive and newbie-friendly - and, the things that made it that way made it jarringly un-familiar to long-time, and, most tragically, returning players from the TSR era. </p><p></p><p>That last is really where 5e has gotten it so very right, with such excellent results. Coming back to D&D, now that 5e is holding the torch, is like coming home to the TSR era. </p><p>A true 'Silver Age' (came up in another thread the other day, I think I like it). </p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p> Nowhere near as often as in D&D. It's not as pervasive a part of the culture of every other RPG. You'd've seen relatively few variants in a Hero Systems game in the first half of the 90s, for instance (once Fuzion came out, and then Steve Long took over...) You also /really/ didn't see a lot of variants in 3.5, <em>RAW-uber-alles</em>, the zietgiest of that day was.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7190206, member: 996"] Essentials. Pretty sure. 4e, IIRC, was point buy, but rolling was still an option, as was array. Your assertion is quantitatively false, and your view baseless. 4e classes had large selections of unique powers. No spells were re-cycled into everyone's list as in other editions, that's the opposite of sameness. Each power had it's own flavor text, that you could change if you found it in any way 'bland.' Just like, in 5e, if you as a DM, find a rule broken, you can change it, you, as a player, in 4e, if you found a power or character bland, could re-imagine it (re-skin or re-fluff) it to something spicier. ...page 42. :shrug: I used the Archery 'build' of the Ranger for that. Very simple to play. Even the most determinedly just-roll-to-hit player starts using the encounters & dailies eventually, but, until he does, spamming Twin Strike like a classic D&D archer with RoF 2, doesn't leave him underpowered. Of course, Essentials introduced the Slayer for that de rigeur 'simple fighter' (punishment for not wanting to play a caster) trope. In 3.x, I'd always steer new players towards the Barbarian rather than the Fighter. Not only was it much more forgiving to build, and earlier-blooming, it was fairly forgiving to play, exciting, and taught you the value of managing a daily resource. In 5e, the Berserker is still a darn good introductory choice, though I've been sufficiently bitten by the nostalgia bug that I run basic-pdf pregens for new players. But, frankly, most 4e classes were easier for a genuinely-new player to grok than prior-edition classes, past fighters included, because the system was just that much more consistent, clear, intuitive and newbie-friendly - and, the things that made it that way made it jarringly un-familiar to long-time, and, most tragically, returning players from the TSR era. That last is really where 5e has gotten it so very right, with such excellent results. Coming back to D&D, now that 5e is holding the torch, is like coming home to the TSR era. A true 'Silver Age' (came up in another thread the other day, I think I like it). :) Nowhere near as often as in D&D. It's not as pervasive a part of the culture of every other RPG. You'd've seen relatively few variants in a Hero Systems game in the first half of the 90s, for instance (once Fuzion came out, and then Steve Long took over...) You also /really/ didn't see a lot of variants in 3.5, [i]RAW-uber-alles[/i], the zietgiest of that day was. [/QUOTE]
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