Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A New Culture?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 7190853" data-attributes="member: 57112"><p>This is the truest thing I've read today (and I also just read "5e is not a RAW system" and a bunch of higher ed research so the competition is pretty stiff) and I definitely plan on stealing this for the future.</p><p></p><p>I feel like the shift is more obvious in online RPG communities because of self-selection bias; there's a stereotype that the more "casual" gamer isn't going to spend their time on online message boards and is also more inclined to build characters based on their personal whims and fancies rather than any objective "optimization" while the "hardcore" gamers are going to be more inclined towards both system mastery and sharing (and arguing over) said mastery online. I... don't entirely buy that, nor do I buy the argument that it's the fault of any one edition of the game (or video games, for that matter). As has been pointed out, D&D's roots were in tactical wargaming which consisted of very little besides system mastery and optimizing strategy. It's been a part of the game for so long that my mind struggles to comprehend an RPG rulebook when it doesn't present a full chapter exclusively to combat mechanics. </p><p></p><p>The trouble comes when optimization forums become such echo chambers that it makes certain individuals feel like they hold the keys to the only objectively <em>right</em> way to play the game. And they treat any forum (and any question asked on such forums) as if they are an optimization forum. Don't get me wrong, the "badwrongfun" can go both ways, but I think it's fair to say that you hear a lot more moaning about "trap options" than you do about "munchkins", though that could just be this forum or a few other venues I've gone to (the RPG Stack Exchange, for example). Obviously there are a lot of different legitimate ways to engage with the game, including "optimization", but also including making different choices about character building and play.</p><p></p><p>I happen to think there's a lot more players like myself or the above-quoted ccs on forums such as these that optimize our experiences and characters in ways differently than building up bigger numbers. But we don't really argue about, say, whether <em>Actor</em> or <em>Linguist</em> are "better" feats because, well, <em>that's not how we engage with the game in the first place.</em> The better feat is whichever best matches your chosen character concept.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 7190853, member: 57112"] This is the truest thing I've read today (and I also just read "5e is not a RAW system" and a bunch of higher ed research so the competition is pretty stiff) and I definitely plan on stealing this for the future. I feel like the shift is more obvious in online RPG communities because of self-selection bias; there's a stereotype that the more "casual" gamer isn't going to spend their time on online message boards and is also more inclined to build characters based on their personal whims and fancies rather than any objective "optimization" while the "hardcore" gamers are going to be more inclined towards both system mastery and sharing (and arguing over) said mastery online. I... don't entirely buy that, nor do I buy the argument that it's the fault of any one edition of the game (or video games, for that matter). As has been pointed out, D&D's roots were in tactical wargaming which consisted of very little besides system mastery and optimizing strategy. It's been a part of the game for so long that my mind struggles to comprehend an RPG rulebook when it doesn't present a full chapter exclusively to combat mechanics. The trouble comes when optimization forums become such echo chambers that it makes certain individuals feel like they hold the keys to the only objectively [I]right[/I] way to play the game. And they treat any forum (and any question asked on such forums) as if they are an optimization forum. Don't get me wrong, the "badwrongfun" can go both ways, but I think it's fair to say that you hear a lot more moaning about "trap options" than you do about "munchkins", though that could just be this forum or a few other venues I've gone to (the RPG Stack Exchange, for example). Obviously there are a lot of different legitimate ways to engage with the game, including "optimization", but also including making different choices about character building and play. I happen to think there's a lot more players like myself or the above-quoted ccs on forums such as these that optimize our experiences and characters in ways differently than building up bigger numbers. But we don't really argue about, say, whether [I]Actor[/I] or [I]Linguist[/I] are "better" feats because, well, [I]that's not how we engage with the game in the first place.[/I] The better feat is whichever best matches your chosen character concept. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A New Culture?
Top