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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 7192313" data-attributes="member: 57112"><p>I agree, and it reminds me of the quote from earlier from @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6700838" target="_blank">CS</a></u></strong></em>s. Optimization isn't really a that strong of a term for the concept we often describe with it. And "CharOp-ing" and "designing to a theme/concept" aren't as mutually exclusive as one might initially think. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, the thing I found about "trap" options is that they only look like traps in games and groups where CharOp is heavily emphasized. In my group, long before any of us had ever heard the term, our Reaping Mauler was quite effective. We didn't get to particularly high levels and we weren't often fighting things against grappling would be ineffective (lots of humanoid enemies), so that might have colored our perspective. But he also choked an owlbear to death, and that was a particularly awesome moment that stuck with us for a long time.</p><p></p><p>There's a lot of reasons a game would purposefully include sub-optimal choices, of which "punishing a lack of system mastery" is only one and fairly poor one at that (and one I would not put past the game's designers). There's a certain type of gamer that relishes the challenge of selecting a clearly inferior option and making it work. Maybe it's more of a video game thing, but I imagine there's quite a few D&D players who've looked at the weapon lists over the years and thought "I bet I could make a whip fighter work". <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Come to think of it, one of my players did do that once in a campaign I DMed. He never did much damage but damn was he obnoxious as hell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which I think is what inspired this thread in the first place. It's not exclusive to optimizers by any stretch though; I think they're more numerous within the D&D fandom for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam, but rest assured that there's plenty of [insert a more story-focused RPG(s) you have a strong distaste for here] communities out there turning their noses down at anyone who would emphasize the "game" elements of RPGs. "It's role-playing not roll-playing" you can hear them chanting in unison.</p><p></p><p>I get that being such a part of a fandom that you identify with and engage with a particular community lends itself to a certain amount of extremism, but it's more than a little unfortunate.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 7192313, member: 57112"] I agree, and it reminds me of the quote from earlier from @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6700838"]CS[/URL][/U][/B][/I]s. Optimization isn't really a that strong of a term for the concept we often describe with it. And "CharOp-ing" and "designing to a theme/concept" aren't as mutually exclusive as one might initially think. See, the thing I found about "trap" options is that they only look like traps in games and groups where CharOp is heavily emphasized. In my group, long before any of us had ever heard the term, our Reaping Mauler was quite effective. We didn't get to particularly high levels and we weren't often fighting things against grappling would be ineffective (lots of humanoid enemies), so that might have colored our perspective. But he also choked an owlbear to death, and that was a particularly awesome moment that stuck with us for a long time. There's a lot of reasons a game would purposefully include sub-optimal choices, of which "punishing a lack of system mastery" is only one and fairly poor one at that (and one I would not put past the game's designers). There's a certain type of gamer that relishes the challenge of selecting a clearly inferior option and making it work. Maybe it's more of a video game thing, but I imagine there's quite a few D&D players who've looked at the weapon lists over the years and thought "I bet I could make a whip fighter work". :-P Come to think of it, one of my players did do that once in a campaign I DMed. He never did much damage but damn was he obnoxious as hell. Which I think is what inspired this thread in the first place. It's not exclusive to optimizers by any stretch though; I think they're more numerous within the D&D fandom for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam, but rest assured that there's plenty of [insert a more story-focused RPG(s) you have a strong distaste for here] communities out there turning their noses down at anyone who would emphasize the "game" elements of RPGs. "It's role-playing not roll-playing" you can hear them chanting in unison. I get that being such a part of a fandom that you identify with and engage with a particular community lends itself to a certain amount of extremism, but it's more than a little unfortunate. [/QUOTE]
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