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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7194138" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>In pre-internet days that debate would have had all sorts of different outcomes - about one per table or gaming group, I'd say. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>When WotC took the design helm, very late 2e and then 3e moved away from such realism as remained but at least waved at it to acknowledge its existence; 4e didn't even do that much.</p><p></p><p>Possibly in push-back against 3e and its rule-for-everything design?</p><p></p><p>There's many places within the game that can and do simulate reality - even a reality that includes fireballs and dragons - with no difficulty at all.</p><p></p><p>There's many places within the game where for reasons of playability (and yes, balance) game mechanics must deny any hope of realism.</p><p></p><p>And between those there are a great many places within the game that give a choice, to lean toward either a realistic (i.e. simulationist and consistent) or 'gamist' (i.e. mechanics first) approach; and it's what's done with those that determine a game's level of realism or simulation. In tandem this also determines to a great extent the likely level of player immersion in one's character and-or the game world; in that the more realistic and internally consistent it all is the easier immersion becomes, as it's easier to imagine and visualize what's going on.</p><p></p><p>Each table can (and does) make its own choices here. However over the last three editions the official design seems to have pushed that choice first in one direction, then hard in that direction, then hauled back and almost gone the other way. No wonder people who jump from edition to edition are confused.</p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7194138, member: 29398"] In pre-internet days that debate would have had all sorts of different outcomes - about one per table or gaming group, I'd say. :) When WotC took the design helm, very late 2e and then 3e moved away from such realism as remained but at least waved at it to acknowledge its existence; 4e didn't even do that much. Possibly in push-back against 3e and its rule-for-everything design? There's many places within the game that can and do simulate reality - even a reality that includes fireballs and dragons - with no difficulty at all. There's many places within the game where for reasons of playability (and yes, balance) game mechanics must deny any hope of realism. And between those there are a great many places within the game that give a choice, to lean toward either a realistic (i.e. simulationist and consistent) or 'gamist' (i.e. mechanics first) approach; and it's what's done with those that determine a game's level of realism or simulation. In tandem this also determines to a great extent the likely level of player immersion in one's character and-or the game world; in that the more realistic and internally consistent it all is the easier immersion becomes, as it's easier to imagine and visualize what's going on. Each table can (and does) make its own choices here. However over the last three editions the official design seems to have pushed that choice first in one direction, then hard in that direction, then hauled back and almost gone the other way. No wonder people who jump from edition to edition are confused. Lanefan [/QUOTE]
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