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<blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 333644" data-attributes="member: 4303"><p>I must admit, with a little tweaking, I've come around to this view as well. I'm tinkering with Meta-Epic Level ME stuff at the moment: Sauron, The One Ring, Eonwe, Melkor et al. I will detail the <em>Self Incarnation</em> salient divine ability in a later post.</p><p></p><p>But First:</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Balrog</strong></p><p>Maia</p><p>Alignment: Neutral Evil</p><p>Domains: Evil, Darkness, Fire</p><p></p><p><strong>Blackguard 10 / Sorcerer 10</strong></p><p><strong>Large Ainu</strong></p><p><strong>Divine Rank: 2</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Hit Dice:</strong> 20d8+200 (Ainu) plus 10d10+100 (Blk) plus 10d4+100 (Sor) (700 hp)</p><p><strong>Initiative:</strong> +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)</p><p><strong>Speed:</strong> 100 ft; fly 280 ft (average)</p><p><strong>AC:</strong> 42 (+7 Dex,, +2 Divine, +15 Natural, +9 Deflection, -1 Size)</p><p><strong>Attacks:</strong> Large <em>+4 Unholy Flaming Burst Longsword</em> +49/+44/+39/+34 melee and Medium-size <em>+2 Flaming Whip</em> +46 melee; by clutch +44/+39/+34/+29 melee; or by spell +44 melee touch or +39 ranged touch.</p><p><strong>Damage:</strong> Large <em>+4 Unholy Flaming Burst Longsword</em> 1d12+17 plus 1d6 fire (17-20/x2) and Medium-size <em>+2 Flaming Whip</em> 1d3 +15 ¶ plus 1d6 fire; clutch 1d6 +13 melee; or by spell.</p><p><strong>Face/Reach:</strong> 5ft. by 5ft./10ft (whip, 40ft.).</p><p><strong>Special Attacks:</strong> Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities, spells.</p><p><strong>Special Qualities:</strong> Divine immunities, DR 37/+4, fire immunity, SR 36, speak and read all languages, divine aura (20 ft. DC20).</p><p><strong>Saves:</strong> Fort +42 Ref +39 Will +41</p><p><strong>Abilities:</strong> Str 36 Dex 24 Con 31 Int 25 Wis 24 Cha 27</p><p></p><p><strong>Skills:</strong> Bluff +30, Concentration +42, Diplomacy +30, Escape Artist +29, Gather Information +30, Hide +29, Intimidate +50, Intuit Direction +29, Innuendo +30, Jump +35, Knowledge (Arcana) +39, Knowledge (Geography) +29, Knowledge (History) +39, Listen +29, Scry +39, Search +29, Sense Motive +39, Spellcraft +39, Spot +29. </p><p></p><p><strong>Feats:</strong> Blind Fight, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Leadership, Ambidexterity, Improved Trip, Two-Weapon Fighting Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (Large Longsword), Improved Critical (Large Longsword), Sunder</p><p></p><p><strong>Epic Feats:</strong> Overwhelming Critical (Large Longsword), Dire Charge, Great Smiting</p><p></p><p><strong>Divine Immunities:</strong> Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, banishment.</p><p></p><p><strong>Salient Divine Abilities:</strong> Frightful Presence, Divine Fire Mastery, Flame of Udûn (see below).</p><p></p><p><strong>Spell-Like Abilities:</strong> A Balrog can use these abilities at will as a 12th level caster, except for evil spells which it uses as a 13th level caster: <em>Armor of Darkness, Blacklight, Blasphemy, Blindness/Deafness, Burning Hands, Darkbolt, Desecrate, Dispel Good, Fire Shield, Fire Seeds, Fire Storm, Incendiary Cloud, Magic Circle against Good, Nightmare, Obscuring Mist, Power Word Blind, Power Word Kill, Produce Flame, Protection from Good, Prying Eyes, Resist Elements, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Wall of Fire.</em> The Save DCs are 20+ spell level.</p><p></p><p><strong>Blackguard Spells/Day:</strong> 4/4/4/2; base DC 19+ spell level</p><p></p><p><strong>Sorcerer Spells Known:</strong> (Levels 0-5; 6/8/8/8/6/4); base DC 20 + spell level </p><p></p><p>0 Level: <em>Detect Poison, Daze, Flare, Ghost Sound, Disrupt Undead, Mending, Arcane Mark, Detect Magic., Read Magic.</em></p><p></p><p>1st Level: <em>Cause Fear, Ray of Enfeeblement, Hypnotism, True Strike, Obscuring Mist</em></p><p></p><p>2nd Level: <em>Detect Thoughts, Shatter, See Invisibility, Darkness</em></p><p></p><p>3rd Level: <em>Dispel Magic, Nondetection, Stinking Cloud</em></p><p></p><p>4th Level: <em>Lesser Geas, Fear</em></p><p></p><p>5th Level: <em>Dominate Person</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Flame of Udûn (unique Salient Divine Ability):</strong> A Balrog may self-immolate at will as a free action, exuding terrific heat. Creatures within 10 feet automatically sustain 20 points of damage and 20 points of unholy damage unless they succeed in Fortitude saving throws (DC 20). Each round that they remain within 10 feet, they must make the save again. A successful saving throw halves both the fire and unholy damage. Immersion in water quenches the Flame of Udûn, and negates both the fire and unholy damage. </p><p></p><p>A Balrog may use its whip to entangle and draw enemies towards it, in the same manner as a Balor (MM, p.47.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Possessions:</strong> Each Balrog carries a Large <em>+4 Unholy Flaming Burst Longsword</em> and a <em>+2 Flaming Whip</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Commentary and Explanation</strong></p><p></p><p>This might be viewed as a rather radical interpretation of the Balrog, but I’ll try to justify it. I don’t expect to end the ongoing debate as to how the Balrog should be represented in D&D terms, but rather add a fresh perspective to the argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>1. Maia</em></p><p></p><p>The underlying assumption is that all Ainur (i.e., the Valar and Maiar) are entities with Divine Rank, and that the Maiar, typically, have rank 1 to 5: equivalent to “Demigods” in D&D parlance. As a race, they were capable of incarnating at will in physical bodies, although those who turned to evil (the Balrogs, Sauron, possibly others) deprived themselves of this ability. It should be assumed that all noncorrupted Maiar (Olórin, Ëonwë etc.), who are naturally incorporeal, possess the Salient Divine Ability of <em>Self-Incarnation</em> (detailed hereafter). Corrupted Maiar (such as Balrogs) are a special case, in that they are confined to the form that they have chosen, or been twisted into. <em>Silmarillion,</em> p..30. <em>Unfinished Tales,</em> p.412.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>2. Neutral Evil</em></p><p></p><p>Many of the Maiar were corrupted by Melkor: <em>Silmarillion,</em> p..31.</p><p></p><p>As the Law/Chaos axis is far less important in Tolkien’s world, NE seems like the most obvious choice.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>3. Domains: Evil, Darkness, Fire</em></p><p></p><p>This triple combination seems ideally suited to the Balrogs. The Balrogs were, like Arien - the Maia who guides the sun - ‘sprits of fire,’ although this is tangentally addressed. From this passage, we have an idea of what the ‘original nature’ of the Maiar who were to become the Balrogs was: <em>Silmarillion,</em> p..100.</p><p></p><p>One of the motifs which runs through the <em>Silmarillion</em> is that Melkor is incapable of original creation, he may only pervert and corrupt. His inability to find and master the ‘Flame Imperishable’ – the creative fire which Illuvatar alone possesses - resonates with the fire of the Balrogs, created by Eru and seduced by Melkor. Gandalf’s exchange with the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm: <em>Lord of the Rings,</em> p.344.</p><p></p><p>Note that ‘Anor’ is the sun, but also the implication is that Gandalf serves the Flame Imperishable: i.e. Eru, or Eru’s purpose. ‘Udûn’ is the name of a vale in northern Mordor, but is also cognate with ‘Utumno’ – Melkor’s original dwelling in Arda – and might be broadly interpreted as ‘Hell’ or perhaps even ‘Melkor’s Spirit.’ In any case, it’s evil.</p><p></p><p>Note that no portfolio is included, nor any details about worshippers – neither the Valar nor the Maiar are deities in the conventional sense, and they cannot grant spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>4. Blackguard-Sorcerer</em></p><p></p><p>Given the range of its abilities, this combination would seem to work well for a Balrog. In <em>Fellowship</em>, the Balrog counterspells Gandalf’s attempt to seal the door in Moria – suggesting some arcane ability. Blackguard levels give it access to a limited selection of evil Divine spells, as well as the following class features: <em>Dark Blessing, Detect Good, Smite Good, Sneak Attack, Command Undead, Aura of Despair</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>5. Ainu, Divine Rank 2, and Complications</em></p><p></p><p>Like most conventional deities, Ainur are considered to have 20 Hit Dice before those attributed to class levels are added. The 20HD is not considered to be an ‘Outsider’ base – note that, technically, there are no outsiders in Arda. The standard divine array for ability scores (35,28,25,24,24,24) was used, obviously modified for divine rank and class level progression. The vast majority of abilities associated with deities can be extended to Ainur, although the following (largely those concerned with a deity’s portfolio) seem inconsistent with the Middle-Earth paradigm and need to be modified:</p><p></p><p><em>Teleport Without Error, Plane Shift, Remote Sensing, Block Sensing, Portfolio Sense, Create Magic Items</em> and <em>Godly Realm</em> do not apply, although Salient Divine Abilities might be used to model remote communication, remote sensing (such as Manwë’s acute sight), and item creation (Angainor, The One Ring, Grond etc.). </p><p></p><p><em>Divine Aura</em> and <em>Senses</em> are retained.</p><p></p><p>Whilst they cannot grant spells, Ainur <em>do</em> gain access to domain spell-like abilities at will. Also, spontaneous Divine spellcasting should be retained.</p><p></p><p>If the Maiar are assumed to run the range from Divine Rank 1 through 5, a Divine Rank of 2 might be seen as a conservative estimate of a Balrog’s power. There is no reason why it should not be extended, with perhaps 4 (Gothmog, High Captain of Angband) being the upper limit.</p><p></p><p>Comments?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sepulchrave II, post: 333644, member: 4303"] I must admit, with a little tweaking, I've come around to this view as well. I'm tinkering with Meta-Epic Level ME stuff at the moment: Sauron, The One Ring, Eonwe, Melkor et al. I will detail the [I]Self Incarnation[/I] salient divine ability in a later post. But First: [B]Balrog[/B] Maia Alignment: Neutral Evil Domains: Evil, Darkness, Fire [B]Blackguard 10 / Sorcerer 10 Large Ainu Divine Rank: 2 Hit Dice:[/B] 20d8+200 (Ainu) plus 10d10+100 (Blk) plus 10d4+100 (Sor) (700 hp) [B]Initiative:[/B] +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) [B]Speed:[/B] 100 ft; fly 280 ft (average) [B]AC:[/B] 42 (+7 Dex,, +2 Divine, +15 Natural, +9 Deflection, -1 Size) [B]Attacks:[/B] Large [I]+4 Unholy Flaming Burst Longsword[/I] +49/+44/+39/+34 melee and Medium-size [I]+2 Flaming Whip[/I] +46 melee; by clutch +44/+39/+34/+29 melee; or by spell +44 melee touch or +39 ranged touch. [B]Damage:[/B] Large [I]+4 Unholy Flaming Burst Longsword[/I] 1d12+17 plus 1d6 fire (17-20/x2) and Medium-size [I]+2 Flaming Whip[/I] 1d3 +15 ¶ plus 1d6 fire; clutch 1d6 +13 melee; or by spell. [B]Face/Reach:[/B] 5ft. by 5ft./10ft (whip, 40ft.). [B]Special Attacks:[/B] Domain powers, salient divine abilities, spell-like abilities, spells. [B]Special Qualities:[/B] Divine immunities, DR 37/+4, fire immunity, SR 36, speak and read all languages, divine aura (20 ft. DC20). [B]Saves:[/B] Fort +42 Ref +39 Will +41 [B]Abilities:[/B] Str 36 Dex 24 Con 31 Int 25 Wis 24 Cha 27 [B]Skills:[/B] Bluff +30, Concentration +42, Diplomacy +30, Escape Artist +29, Gather Information +30, Hide +29, Intimidate +50, Intuit Direction +29, Innuendo +30, Jump +35, Knowledge (Arcana) +39, Knowledge (Geography) +29, Knowledge (History) +39, Listen +29, Scry +39, Search +29, Sense Motive +39, Spellcraft +39, Spot +29. [B]Feats:[/B] Blind Fight, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Leadership, Ambidexterity, Improved Trip, Two-Weapon Fighting Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (Large Longsword), Improved Critical (Large Longsword), Sunder [B]Epic Feats:[/B] Overwhelming Critical (Large Longsword), Dire Charge, Great Smiting [B]Divine Immunities:[/B] Ability damage, ability drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, banishment. [B]Salient Divine Abilities:[/B] Frightful Presence, Divine Fire Mastery, Flame of Udûn (see below). [B]Spell-Like Abilities:[/B] A Balrog can use these abilities at will as a 12th level caster, except for evil spells which it uses as a 13th level caster: [I]Armor of Darkness, Blacklight, Blasphemy, Blindness/Deafness, Burning Hands, Darkbolt, Desecrate, Dispel Good, Fire Shield, Fire Seeds, Fire Storm, Incendiary Cloud, Magic Circle against Good, Nightmare, Obscuring Mist, Power Word Blind, Power Word Kill, Produce Flame, Protection from Good, Prying Eyes, Resist Elements, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Wall of Fire.[/I] The Save DCs are 20+ spell level. [B]Blackguard Spells/Day:[/B] 4/4/4/2; base DC 19+ spell level [B]Sorcerer Spells Known:[/B] (Levels 0-5; 6/8/8/8/6/4); base DC 20 + spell level 0 Level: [I]Detect Poison, Daze, Flare, Ghost Sound, Disrupt Undead, Mending, Arcane Mark, Detect Magic., Read Magic.[/I] 1st Level: [I]Cause Fear, Ray of Enfeeblement, Hypnotism, True Strike, Obscuring Mist[/I] 2nd Level: [I]Detect Thoughts, Shatter, See Invisibility, Darkness[/I] 3rd Level: [I]Dispel Magic, Nondetection, Stinking Cloud[/I] 4th Level: [I]Lesser Geas, Fear[/I] 5th Level: [I]Dominate Person[/I] [B]Flame of Udûn (unique Salient Divine Ability):[/B] A Balrog may self-immolate at will as a free action, exuding terrific heat. Creatures within 10 feet automatically sustain 20 points of damage and 20 points of unholy damage unless they succeed in Fortitude saving throws (DC 20). Each round that they remain within 10 feet, they must make the save again. A successful saving throw halves both the fire and unholy damage. Immersion in water quenches the Flame of Udûn, and negates both the fire and unholy damage. A Balrog may use its whip to entangle and draw enemies towards it, in the same manner as a Balor (MM, p.47.) [B]Possessions:[/B] Each Balrog carries a Large [I]+4 Unholy Flaming Burst Longsword[/I] and a [I]+2 Flaming Whip[/I]. [B]Commentary and Explanation[/B] This might be viewed as a rather radical interpretation of the Balrog, but I’ll try to justify it. I don’t expect to end the ongoing debate as to how the Balrog should be represented in D&D terms, but rather add a fresh perspective to the argument. [I]1. Maia[/I] The underlying assumption is that all Ainur (i.e., the Valar and Maiar) are entities with Divine Rank, and that the Maiar, typically, have rank 1 to 5: equivalent to “Demigods” in D&D parlance. As a race, they were capable of incarnating at will in physical bodies, although those who turned to evil (the Balrogs, Sauron, possibly others) deprived themselves of this ability. It should be assumed that all noncorrupted Maiar (Olórin, Ëonwë etc.), who are naturally incorporeal, possess the Salient Divine Ability of [I]Self-Incarnation[/I] (detailed hereafter). Corrupted Maiar (such as Balrogs) are a special case, in that they are confined to the form that they have chosen, or been twisted into. [I]Silmarillion,[/I] p..30. [I]Unfinished Tales,[/I] p.412. [I]2. Neutral Evil[/I] Many of the Maiar were corrupted by Melkor: [I]Silmarillion,[/I] p..31. As the Law/Chaos axis is far less important in Tolkien’s world, NE seems like the most obvious choice. [I]3. Domains: Evil, Darkness, Fire[/I] This triple combination seems ideally suited to the Balrogs. The Balrogs were, like Arien - the Maia who guides the sun - ‘sprits of fire,’ although this is tangentally addressed. From this passage, we have an idea of what the ‘original nature’ of the Maiar who were to become the Balrogs was: [I]Silmarillion,[/I] p..100. One of the motifs which runs through the [I]Silmarillion[/I] is that Melkor is incapable of original creation, he may only pervert and corrupt. His inability to find and master the ‘Flame Imperishable’ – the creative fire which Illuvatar alone possesses - resonates with the fire of the Balrogs, created by Eru and seduced by Melkor. Gandalf’s exchange with the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm: [I]Lord of the Rings,[/I] p.344. Note that ‘Anor’ is the sun, but also the implication is that Gandalf serves the Flame Imperishable: i.e. Eru, or Eru’s purpose. ‘Udûn’ is the name of a vale in northern Mordor, but is also cognate with ‘Utumno’ – Melkor’s original dwelling in Arda – and might be broadly interpreted as ‘Hell’ or perhaps even ‘Melkor’s Spirit.’ In any case, it’s evil. Note that no portfolio is included, nor any details about worshippers – neither the Valar nor the Maiar are deities in the conventional sense, and they cannot grant spells. [I]4. Blackguard-Sorcerer[/I] Given the range of its abilities, this combination would seem to work well for a Balrog. In [I]Fellowship[/I], the Balrog counterspells Gandalf’s attempt to seal the door in Moria – suggesting some arcane ability. Blackguard levels give it access to a limited selection of evil Divine spells, as well as the following class features: [I]Dark Blessing, Detect Good, Smite Good, Sneak Attack, Command Undead, Aura of Despair[/I]. [I]5. Ainu, Divine Rank 2, and Complications[/I] Like most conventional deities, Ainur are considered to have 20 Hit Dice before those attributed to class levels are added. The 20HD is not considered to be an ‘Outsider’ base – note that, technically, there are no outsiders in Arda. The standard divine array for ability scores (35,28,25,24,24,24) was used, obviously modified for divine rank and class level progression. The vast majority of abilities associated with deities can be extended to Ainur, although the following (largely those concerned with a deity’s portfolio) seem inconsistent with the Middle-Earth paradigm and need to be modified: [I]Teleport Without Error, Plane Shift, Remote Sensing, Block Sensing, Portfolio Sense, Create Magic Items[/I] and [I]Godly Realm[/I] do not apply, although Salient Divine Abilities might be used to model remote communication, remote sensing (such as Manwë’s acute sight), and item creation (Angainor, The One Ring, Grond etc.). [I]Divine Aura[/I] and [I]Senses[/I] are retained. Whilst they cannot grant spells, Ainur [I]do[/I] gain access to domain spell-like abilities at will. Also, spontaneous Divine spellcasting should be retained. If the Maiar are assumed to run the range from Divine Rank 1 through 5, a Divine Rank of 2 might be seen as a conservative estimate of a Balrog’s power. There is no reason why it should not be extended, with perhaps 4 (Gothmog, High Captain of Angband) being the upper limit. Comments? [/QUOTE]
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