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A new Middle Earth d20 thread
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<blockquote data-quote="tleilaxu" data-source="post: 368888" data-attributes="member: 1289"><p><strong>Proposal for relative power-scale MEd20</strong></p><p></p><p>OK... This is a provisional power scale. A way to look at the entities of Middle Earth and understand their relative power. The particular values may easily be changed. This scale goes from 1 to 50. 50 is the most powerful entity on ME (in my opinion Melkor) and 1 is an average human. You could convert these to hit dice or to levels. The scale can easily be stretched or contracted. </p><p></p><p>THe purpose of this scale is to provide a baseline so that people can create entities independentlly yet would still be compatible.</p><p></p><p><em> Consider 40 maximum advancement for elves and 20 max advancement for humans. Followed is a short essay about the relationship between Valar and the Maiar in their trains</em></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">50: Melkor (50), Manwe (49), Varda (49), Ulmo (48), Yavanna (48), Aule (47), Mandos (47), Ungloliant?</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">45: Lorien (45), Orome (44), Tulkas (43), Eonwe (41)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">40: Ingwe (40) (maximum elven advancement), Ancalagon? (maximum advanced dragon), Osse (40), Sauron (39), Melian (38), Cirdan/Nowe (38), Gothmog (37) (maximum advanced Balrog), Saruman/Curunir (36), Feanor (36), Thingol/Elwe (36)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">35: Gandalf/Olorin (35), Fingolfin (35), Finrod (34), Galadriel (33)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">30: Durin's Bane (30) (standard Balrog?), Elrond (30), Lesser Maiar (30), Radagast? (29?), Glorfindel? (28?), Celeborn? (28), Celebrimbor? (27?),</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">25: Treebeard (25) (maximum advanced Ent), Gildor? (21?)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">20: Beren (20) (maximum advanced human), Turin (20), Elros (20), W-K of Angmar? (19?), Basic Ent (18)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">15: Aragorn (15), Beorn (15), Olag-Hai (15), Legolas? (14?), Shelob? (14?), Bard (13?), Denethor (12), Huorns (12), Trolls (12), Theoden (11)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">10: Boromir (10), Gimli (10), Faramir (10), Halbarad (10), Thorin (10?), Balin (9?)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">5: Avg Dunedain Ranger? (5), Frodo (5), Sam (5), Merry (5), Eowyn (5), Uruk-Hai (5), Pippin (4), Corsairs of Umbar/Black Numenorean (4), Guards of the White Tower (3), Men of Harad and Rhun (2), Orcs of Mordor (2)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow">1: Avg Human adult (1), Dunlendings (2), Orcs of Moria (1)</span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: yellow"></span></p><p></p><p>OK, just a few comments and questions.</p><p></p><p>First, do you folks think this is a good idea? Is it something we could work with, maybe change around a bit, but that could give us a framework to make ME d20 that is of equivalent power level with what other people are creating? It doesn't make any sense for me to make a 19th level Finrod when someone has made a 35th level Galadriel. </p><p>Second, I have justifications for why I put certain people where. For now I will just talk about the power scale of the Valar and Maiar. </p><p></p><p>The first part of the Silmarillion gives a good rundown of the relative power of different Valar. Tulkas is obviously the least powerful in spirit while Melkor, Manwe and Varda are the strongest. Also, there can be parallels drawn with Greek mythos. In addition, it is known that Valar have attendent Maiar. </p><p></p><p>So we have this schema</p><p></p><p>Manwe (Sky God; Has some characteristics of Zeus)</p><p></p><p>Varda (Sky goddess? Ishtar?)</p><p></p><p>Ulmo (Sea God; Poseidon)</p><p></p><p>Yavanna (Earth Mother; Gaia/Persephone)</p><p></p><p>Aule (Earth father; Hephaestus)</p><p></p><p>Mandos (Death, Fate; Hades)</p><p></p><p>Lorien (Dreams)</p><p></p><p>OK... It is KNOWN that Eonwe is the most powerful Maiar, but to dissent from others I would say this makes him less powerful in spirit than the least Valar. Give him a template "Herald" through which he has the power to enforce the proclimations of the Valar. Eonwe has less stature personally because he is only the sword and trumpet, which are nothing without a sword-arm and breath. OK, enought of that...</p><p></p><p>Eonwe is Manwe's "homie" and as Manwe is the most powerful Valar it makes sense for him to be down with the most powerful Maiar. From this it is reasonable to think that As the Valar decrease in power, their Maiar in tow do as well... So we have these known relationships</p><p></p><p>Manwe -> Eonwe</p><p></p><p>Ulmo -> Osse</p><p></p><p>Aule -> Sauron, Saruman/Curunir</p><p></p><p>Lorien -> Gandalf/Olorin</p><p></p><p>I forget who Melian was a servant of? Perhaps Lorien?</p><p></p><p>Assume that Eonwe, Osse, Sauron and Gandalf are the most powerful attendent of each of their respective masters. This would imply that Osse is more powerful than Sauron! Perhaps this is so. After all, the bad guys never have much of a presence on water. </p><p>Conclusion: From this framework we can hypothosize about the power of Maiar of different orders. A Maia of Orome or Tulkas' crew would reasonably be assumed to be weaker than on of Varda or Yavanna's attendents.</p><p></p><p>Finally, the baselines for power in this schema are:</p><p></p><p>Valar (43-50) Maiar (30-41) Elves (1- 35 or 40), Humans etc (1-20)</p><p></p><p>PROBLEMS: I have no DaDG or ELH so no divine ranks and no stat blocks for Maia from me. </p><p></p><p>And don't ask what Illuvatar's rank is on this scale. On a scale from one to fifty Illuvatar is infinite.</p><p></p><p>I look forward to hearing from the rest of you about this proposal! Hopefully we can work out a baseline for all!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tleilaxu, post: 368888, member: 1289"] [b]Proposal for relative power-scale MEd20[/b] OK... This is a provisional power scale. A way to look at the entities of Middle Earth and understand their relative power. The particular values may easily be changed. This scale goes from 1 to 50. 50 is the most powerful entity on ME (in my opinion Melkor) and 1 is an average human. You could convert these to hit dice or to levels. The scale can easily be stretched or contracted. THe purpose of this scale is to provide a baseline so that people can create entities independentlly yet would still be compatible. [i] Consider 40 maximum advancement for elves and 20 max advancement for humans. Followed is a short essay about the relationship between Valar and the Maiar in their trains[/i] [color=yellow] 50: Melkor (50), Manwe (49), Varda (49), Ulmo (48), Yavanna (48), Aule (47), Mandos (47), Ungloliant? 45: Lorien (45), Orome (44), Tulkas (43), Eonwe (41) 40: Ingwe (40) (maximum elven advancement), Ancalagon? (maximum advanced dragon), Osse (40), Sauron (39), Melian (38), Cirdan/Nowe (38), Gothmog (37) (maximum advanced Balrog), Saruman/Curunir (36), Feanor (36), Thingol/Elwe (36) 35: Gandalf/Olorin (35), Fingolfin (35), Finrod (34), Galadriel (33) 30: Durin's Bane (30) (standard Balrog?), Elrond (30), Lesser Maiar (30), Radagast? (29?), Glorfindel? (28?), Celeborn? (28), Celebrimbor? (27?), 25: Treebeard (25) (maximum advanced Ent), Gildor? (21?) 20: Beren (20) (maximum advanced human), Turin (20), Elros (20), W-K of Angmar? (19?), Basic Ent (18) 15: Aragorn (15), Beorn (15), Olag-Hai (15), Legolas? (14?), Shelob? (14?), Bard (13?), Denethor (12), Huorns (12), Trolls (12), Theoden (11) 10: Boromir (10), Gimli (10), Faramir (10), Halbarad (10), Thorin (10?), Balin (9?) 5: Avg Dunedain Ranger? (5), Frodo (5), Sam (5), Merry (5), Eowyn (5), Uruk-Hai (5), Pippin (4), Corsairs of Umbar/Black Numenorean (4), Guards of the White Tower (3), Men of Harad and Rhun (2), Orcs of Mordor (2) 1: Avg Human adult (1), Dunlendings (2), Orcs of Moria (1) [/color] OK, just a few comments and questions. First, do you folks think this is a good idea? Is it something we could work with, maybe change around a bit, but that could give us a framework to make ME d20 that is of equivalent power level with what other people are creating? It doesn't make any sense for me to make a 19th level Finrod when someone has made a 35th level Galadriel. Second, I have justifications for why I put certain people where. For now I will just talk about the power scale of the Valar and Maiar. The first part of the Silmarillion gives a good rundown of the relative power of different Valar. Tulkas is obviously the least powerful in spirit while Melkor, Manwe and Varda are the strongest. Also, there can be parallels drawn with Greek mythos. In addition, it is known that Valar have attendent Maiar. So we have this schema Manwe (Sky God; Has some characteristics of Zeus) Varda (Sky goddess? Ishtar?) Ulmo (Sea God; Poseidon) Yavanna (Earth Mother; Gaia/Persephone) Aule (Earth father; Hephaestus) Mandos (Death, Fate; Hades) Lorien (Dreams) OK... It is KNOWN that Eonwe is the most powerful Maiar, but to dissent from others I would say this makes him less powerful in spirit than the least Valar. Give him a template "Herald" through which he has the power to enforce the proclimations of the Valar. Eonwe has less stature personally because he is only the sword and trumpet, which are nothing without a sword-arm and breath. OK, enought of that... Eonwe is Manwe's "homie" and as Manwe is the most powerful Valar it makes sense for him to be down with the most powerful Maiar. From this it is reasonable to think that As the Valar decrease in power, their Maiar in tow do as well... So we have these known relationships Manwe -> Eonwe Ulmo -> Osse Aule -> Sauron, Saruman/Curunir Lorien -> Gandalf/Olorin I forget who Melian was a servant of? Perhaps Lorien? Assume that Eonwe, Osse, Sauron and Gandalf are the most powerful attendent of each of their respective masters. This would imply that Osse is more powerful than Sauron! Perhaps this is so. After all, the bad guys never have much of a presence on water. Conclusion: From this framework we can hypothosize about the power of Maiar of different orders. A Maia of Orome or Tulkas' crew would reasonably be assumed to be weaker than on of Varda or Yavanna's attendents. Finally, the baselines for power in this schema are: Valar (43-50) Maiar (30-41) Elves (1- 35 or 40), Humans etc (1-20) PROBLEMS: I have no DaDG or ELH so no divine ranks and no stat blocks for Maia from me. And don't ask what Illuvatar's rank is on this scale. On a scale from one to fifty Illuvatar is infinite. I look forward to hearing from the rest of you about this proposal! Hopefully we can work out a baseline for all! [/QUOTE]
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