Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A rant on ASF
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 2475341" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Game rules always restrict on the basis of flavour, as even the most cursory examination of various games will show. For example, if you were playing in a world based off of Tolkein & other classic fantasy authors/mythologies (i.e., D&D), and I had a really good idea for a superhero, should the rules allow me to gain intrinsic super-strength, hypersonic speed, and X-ray vision? At any point in the game? Should Monopoly allow the Shoe and the Hat to get married in order to raise a family? Should d20 Conan support PCs carrying automatic weapons?</p><p></p><p>All games restrict the rules on the basis of flavour. </p><p></p><p>All games also relax restrictions on the basis of flavour. In D&D 3.X, the fairly homogenous race/class structure creates a fairly bland homogenous flavour. This is one of the things that, I think, people who complain about the "video game" feel of 3.X are reacting to.</p><p></p><p>As soon as we admit that the rules are going to be restrictive on the basis of flavour, the remaining questions relate to what types of restrictions and what types of flavour.</p><p></p><p>Any attempt to do "generic fantasy" is, imho, bound to fail to some degree. I am not certain that "generic" fantasy exists, unless by "generic" we mean "mostly bland". Even something like GURPS (surely is the closest to a detailed generic rpg system out there) cannot help but create a series of flavour options based upon what is presented in the rules. "Legacy flavour" is neither inherently better or worse than any other kind of flavour.</p><p></p><p>The D&D "Legacy flavour" is based upon the game's origins as a tabletop miniatures wargame, coupled with ideas culled from Lovecraft, classic fantasy novels, fairy tales, and mythology. Older versions of D&D actively attempted to provide a form of "retroactive continuity," coming up with reasons why things occurred in these stories the way that they did. Hence, LG paladins were based off of specific models, as were the original ranger, monk, dwarf, elf, and so on. Many things which, at first glance, seem to be surely created just for the game, on further examination come from another source. The 1st Edition DMG actually included a small reading list of game influences.</p><p></p><p>You can call these things "sacred cows" if you like, but doing so does not actually provide a rational argument against them. </p><p></p><p>If you are looking for a system that does not restrict character concept, perhaps you would be happier with GURPS or FUDGE.</p><p></p><p>If you were looking for something that is perfectly balanced for all players, and doesn't make choices on the basis of flavour, I don't know of anything that I could recommend. At least some small part of reasoning behind Rule 0 is that individual groups/campaigns will require specific flavour rules and/or rules to balance style of play.</p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 2475341, member: 18280"] Game rules always restrict on the basis of flavour, as even the most cursory examination of various games will show. For example, if you were playing in a world based off of Tolkein & other classic fantasy authors/mythologies (i.e., D&D), and I had a really good idea for a superhero, should the rules allow me to gain intrinsic super-strength, hypersonic speed, and X-ray vision? At any point in the game? Should Monopoly allow the Shoe and the Hat to get married in order to raise a family? Should d20 Conan support PCs carrying automatic weapons? All games restrict the rules on the basis of flavour. All games also relax restrictions on the basis of flavour. In D&D 3.X, the fairly homogenous race/class structure creates a fairly bland homogenous flavour. This is one of the things that, I think, people who complain about the "video game" feel of 3.X are reacting to. As soon as we admit that the rules are going to be restrictive on the basis of flavour, the remaining questions relate to what types of restrictions and what types of flavour. Any attempt to do "generic fantasy" is, imho, bound to fail to some degree. I am not certain that "generic" fantasy exists, unless by "generic" we mean "mostly bland". Even something like GURPS (surely is the closest to a detailed generic rpg system out there) cannot help but create a series of flavour options based upon what is presented in the rules. "Legacy flavour" is neither inherently better or worse than any other kind of flavour. The D&D "Legacy flavour" is based upon the game's origins as a tabletop miniatures wargame, coupled with ideas culled from Lovecraft, classic fantasy novels, fairy tales, and mythology. Older versions of D&D actively attempted to provide a form of "retroactive continuity," coming up with reasons why things occurred in these stories the way that they did. Hence, LG paladins were based off of specific models, as were the original ranger, monk, dwarf, elf, and so on. Many things which, at first glance, seem to be surely created just for the game, on further examination come from another source. The 1st Edition DMG actually included a small reading list of game influences. You can call these things "sacred cows" if you like, but doing so does not actually provide a rational argument against them. If you are looking for a system that does not restrict character concept, perhaps you would be happier with GURPS or FUDGE. If you were looking for something that is perfectly balanced for all players, and doesn't make choices on the basis of flavour, I don't know of anything that I could recommend. At least some small part of reasoning behind Rule 0 is that individual groups/campaigns will require specific flavour rules and/or rules to balance style of play. RC [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A rant on ASF
Top