Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
A Rather Odd Shovel [Judge: Bront]
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Trouvere" data-source="post: 4956680" data-attributes="member: 37250"><p>[sblock=OOC]If you achieve expected wealth at each level, and spend all of that money to craft your own items, and take most of the usual crafting feats, then you run out of CP at around 14th level. At 14th, you're expected to have a total wealth of 150,000 gp. You can craft items with a street value of 300,000 gp, for 30,000 CP - you have 15,750 from levels and at best another 15,000 from item creation feats, probably less, and an insignificant amount from the job system. If you've spent CP on behalf of other people, you run out sooner.</p><p></p><p>So, the options are: (1) the system wasn't really thought out too well, or (2) primary casters were <em>intended</em> to run out of CP, so that they couldn't quite double their personal wealth with respect to non-casters (adding insult to injury), and they were meant to use their profits from providing crafting services to purchase items at full price themselves, and/or (3) some crafting was expected to occur during in-game time, without spending CP.</p><p> </p><p>Certainly, non-casters have more CP than they know what to do with, but never enough gold, whereas the problem is reversed for casters.</p><p></p><p>[sblock=Bonus thought]It occurs to me belatedly that LEW's decision to have a low-magic Elminster-less world, where the PCs are the highest level classed individuals, will cause a problem later on. If >9th level casters are long-dead or never even existed (with the known exception of Rayne Liore (13th?) and some other Medibarian NPCs), how will our wizard PCs obtain more 6th through 9th level spells than their 2 free per level? There won't be scrolls lying around for purchase. There might be some ancient ones available as treasure, stretching incredulity. Without access to most 6th-9th level spells, wizards will be unable to craft a lot of items. And clerics and druids will rule the world, which is just unacceptable! So we're left with a need for active collusion between wizard PCs by which each picks a different pair of free spells on level up, and then everyone swaps. Without a sufficient number of colluding wizards, most 6th-9th level spells will remain unavailable. Some will be forced to use the spell-researching rules - which require 100 CP per spell level.[/sblock]Yes, though the limiting factor in levels 1 to 12 is generally money (particularly for wizard crafters who need to spend money to obtain the spells required to make a desired item). There's an additional limit of available XP at any given level, but that's much harder to get your head around, and XP 'regenerates'.I agree that by RAW, CP expenditure only applies to handwaved instacrafting outside adventures. But if CP availability was intended to act as a limiting factor on item acquisition, then it may become a problem if some PCs can take crafting downtime in adventures while others only ever craft between games and find themselves CP-limited with gold remaining. But is that a big enough difference to worry about? I really don't know. We might just end up with a suspicious number of adventures that start with an uneventful sea voyage to offer the opportunity to craft, leading to the subversion of the entire CP system.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, if you sleep for 8 hours a day, prepare spells for 1 and travel for 7, you're left with 8 hours a day twiddling your thumbs in an adventure anyway, without taking any time off. That leaves time to craft all sorts of items in-game without handwaving, so long as they don't require an alchemy lab or a forge.</p><p></p><p>So I start to wonder what the point of CP is at all.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Hey, if you want to abuse the CP system, take Craft Construct, and make homunculi. A 6 HD homunculus costs you 9050 gp, 398 XP and 905 CP. But as a creature with an Int score, the homunculus comes with its very own 3150 CP, which it can share with you (besides its other varied uses).</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">We have seen worse cheese! I seem to recall someone gained a cohort who effectively had more than 25 point buy because she drew the precisely required ability score-increasing cards from a Deck of Many Things - offstage, in a Panglossian alternative timeline.</span>[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trouvere, post: 4956680, member: 37250"] [sblock=OOC]If you achieve expected wealth at each level, and spend all of that money to craft your own items, and take most of the usual crafting feats, then you run out of CP at around 14th level. At 14th, you're expected to have a total wealth of 150,000 gp. You can craft items with a street value of 300,000 gp, for 30,000 CP - you have 15,750 from levels and at best another 15,000 from item creation feats, probably less, and an insignificant amount from the job system. If you've spent CP on behalf of other people, you run out sooner. So, the options are: (1) the system wasn't really thought out too well, or (2) primary casters were [I]intended[/I] to run out of CP, so that they couldn't quite double their personal wealth with respect to non-casters (adding insult to injury), and they were meant to use their profits from providing crafting services to purchase items at full price themselves, and/or (3) some crafting was expected to occur during in-game time, without spending CP. Certainly, non-casters have more CP than they know what to do with, but never enough gold, whereas the problem is reversed for casters. [sblock=Bonus thought]It occurs to me belatedly that LEW's decision to have a low-magic Elminster-less world, where the PCs are the highest level classed individuals, will cause a problem later on. If >9th level casters are long-dead or never even existed (with the known exception of Rayne Liore (13th?) and some other Medibarian NPCs), how will our wizard PCs obtain more 6th through 9th level spells than their 2 free per level? There won't be scrolls lying around for purchase. There might be some ancient ones available as treasure, stretching incredulity. Without access to most 6th-9th level spells, wizards will be unable to craft a lot of items. And clerics and druids will rule the world, which is just unacceptable! So we're left with a need for active collusion between wizard PCs by which each picks a different pair of free spells on level up, and then everyone swaps. Without a sufficient number of colluding wizards, most 6th-9th level spells will remain unavailable. Some will be forced to use the spell-researching rules - which require 100 CP per spell level.[/sblock]Yes, though the limiting factor in levels 1 to 12 is generally money (particularly for wizard crafters who need to spend money to obtain the spells required to make a desired item). There's an additional limit of available XP at any given level, but that's much harder to get your head around, and XP 'regenerates'.I agree that by RAW, CP expenditure only applies to handwaved instacrafting outside adventures. But if CP availability was intended to act as a limiting factor on item acquisition, then it may become a problem if some PCs can take crafting downtime in adventures while others only ever craft between games and find themselves CP-limited with gold remaining. But is that a big enough difference to worry about? I really don't know. We might just end up with a suspicious number of adventures that start with an uneventful sea voyage to offer the opportunity to craft, leading to the subversion of the entire CP system. On the other hand, if you sleep for 8 hours a day, prepare spells for 1 and travel for 7, you're left with 8 hours a day twiddling your thumbs in an adventure anyway, without taking any time off. That leaves time to craft all sorts of items in-game without handwaving, so long as they don't require an alchemy lab or a forge. So I start to wonder what the point of CP is at all. [SIZE="1"]Hey, if you want to abuse the CP system, take Craft Construct, and make homunculi. A 6 HD homunculus costs you 9050 gp, 398 XP and 905 CP. But as a creature with an Int score, the homunculus comes with its very own 3150 CP, which it can share with you (besides its other varied uses). We have seen worse cheese! I seem to recall someone gained a cohort who effectively had more than 25 point buy because she drew the precisely required ability score-increasing cards from a Deck of Many Things - offstage, in a Panglossian alternative timeline.[/SIZE][/sblock] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
A Rather Odd Shovel [Judge: Bront]
Top