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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
A wierd thing I like about 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7056597" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, I think the "everyone should MC" thing was an unforeseen effect, but its true, MC feats are just too good to pass up, though of course you CAN pass up anything in 4e and it won't really HURT you... But I think that the flavor is OK too, as you say, and you don't have to frame it as "now I'm a ranger" or whatever, you can just frame it as you learned some tricks, reflavor them however you want.</p><p></p><p>5e parses the skill/class/subclass/theme space a bit more systematically than 4e. 4e has a pretty good class lineup, but then they got a bit crazy with it later on, and there was never a really STRONG subclass concept, which would have been nice, and which 5e does have. Themes in 4e are nice, but they tend to just clutter the game, especially when you have backgrounds as well, and Power of Skill, MC feats, etc all chipping in more 'stuff'. </p><p></p><p>I think a good redesign of 4e would try to push a lot more build concepts on fewer classes and do it with less granular choices, so to make 'axe wielding melee dwarf' would be pretty much one class, one race, and one option, like it is in 5e. In 4e you have to keep picking more different feats and etc to really manage your concept. It can get a little more intricate than many players want to bother with.</p><p></p><p>So for instance in my 4e campaigns I've ALWAYS had one 'gearhead' player (not always the same player) that would deal with character builds and advise the others and find them "some feat that works to make me better at X". Sometimes I had to fill that role myself as DM, but often one of the players would step up, thankfully, and pick up a copy of DDI, code in all the PCs, and print them all, level them all, etc. I never had a whole group where everyone would do their own. Back in the 2e days that would never happen. I noticed that mostly in 5e people could all handle it (even my mother picked out what her elf rogue did, and she's 80!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7056597, member: 82106"] Yeah, I think the "everyone should MC" thing was an unforeseen effect, but its true, MC feats are just too good to pass up, though of course you CAN pass up anything in 4e and it won't really HURT you... But I think that the flavor is OK too, as you say, and you don't have to frame it as "now I'm a ranger" or whatever, you can just frame it as you learned some tricks, reflavor them however you want. 5e parses the skill/class/subclass/theme space a bit more systematically than 4e. 4e has a pretty good class lineup, but then they got a bit crazy with it later on, and there was never a really STRONG subclass concept, which would have been nice, and which 5e does have. Themes in 4e are nice, but they tend to just clutter the game, especially when you have backgrounds as well, and Power of Skill, MC feats, etc all chipping in more 'stuff'. I think a good redesign of 4e would try to push a lot more build concepts on fewer classes and do it with less granular choices, so to make 'axe wielding melee dwarf' would be pretty much one class, one race, and one option, like it is in 5e. In 4e you have to keep picking more different feats and etc to really manage your concept. It can get a little more intricate than many players want to bother with. So for instance in my 4e campaigns I've ALWAYS had one 'gearhead' player (not always the same player) that would deal with character builds and advise the others and find them "some feat that works to make me better at X". Sometimes I had to fill that role myself as DM, but often one of the players would step up, thankfully, and pick up a copy of DDI, code in all the PCs, and print them all, level them all, etc. I never had a whole group where everyone would do their own. Back in the 2e days that would never happen. I noticed that mostly in 5e people could all handle it (even my mother picked out what her elf rogue did, and she's 80!). [/QUOTE]
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