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About Morally Correct Outcomes in D&D Adventures [+]
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<blockquote data-quote="Emoshin" data-source="post: 8935850" data-attributes="member: 7040377"><p><strong>This is a + thread <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🙏" title="Folded hands :pray:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f64f.png" data-shortname=":pray:" /></strong></p><p></p><p>The intent of this + thread is to offer a psychologically-safe and <strong>efficient</strong> and <strong>effective</strong> option to discuss the basic premise described below.</p><p></p><p>By participating in this thread, please make positive contributions to the premise. If you don't agree with the below premise, that's totally valid. Just asking you to refrain from arguing about that here in <em><strong>this</strong></em> thread.</p><p></p><p>Last but not least, due to the sensitive nature of this topic, please don't make assertions about other people or their games or their moral code.</p><p></p><p><strong>An insight from a small and humble poll</strong></p><p></p><p>When asked <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/which-of-these-possible-endings-do-you-prefer-to-see-in-every-published-adventure-as-written.695146/" target="_blank">"Which of these endgames do you like to see in every WoTC 5E adventure as written?"</a>, these have been among the popular answers:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At least one heroically "good" ending (PC can achieve a morally correct outcome)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And I am good with [2 or more] possible endings examined & explored in the adventure as written</li> </ul><p>While not a scientifically accurate representation of the entire D&D 5E community, this poll may suggest that a significant* number of D&D 5E players prefer each WoTC 5E published adventure <strong><em>as-written</em></strong> to examine and explore a number of suggested endings, one of which should have a "good" / morally correct outcome.</p><p></p><p>This + thread treats this idea as an "invitation" to engage in some hypotheticals...</p><p></p><p>* albeit an estimated percentage is not possible to assert without robust data</p><p></p><p><strong>But wait, what is heroically "good" and "morally correct" anyway?</strong></p><p></p><p>When we run or (re)write adventures for our own group, chatGPT says:</p><p></p><p></p><p>And what if you are a writer at WoTC? If tasked with including a "good" ending with every adventure, how do you navigate the issue of every gaming table having different expectations and moral codes in the fiction?</p><p></p><p>This reminds me of a book called "How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question" by Michael Schur. The author seemed to be in a somewhat analogous situation, trying to define good and bad in the fiction for the TV show "The Good Place". Here's an excerpt:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now I have zilch experience at moral philosophy, so I found this book very interesting. For example, it describes The Trolley Problem -- in essence, is it OK to cause the death of one person in order to prevent a bunch of other people from not dying? And then goes about explaining ways of approaching this thought experiment.</p><p></p><p>The Trolley Problem reminds me of potential situations in D&D too, such as: is it "good" or "evil" to extrajudicially murder a handful of brainwashed cultists who are actively trying to summon the elder god from destroying the entire city full of innocent people? You may have your own, even trickier, example from a previous game.</p><p></p><p>One possibility is, since the fiction is never set in stone, the author could attempt to avoid writing the kind of story that expressly puts the PCs in morally ambiguous situations.</p><p></p><p>Another possibility is when the author writes the adventure story that sets up morally challenging scenario, but not really provide any suggested guidance of good and bad, which may obfuscate understanding of what exactly is the heroically "good" / morally correct outcome that some D&D gamers prefer to see in the adventure as written.</p><p></p><p><strong>OK, what if...?</strong></p><p></p><p>Hypothetically, what if every WoTC 5E adventure <strong><em>as-written</em></strong> examined & explored 2 or more suggested endings, including at least one heroically "good" ending where the PCs can achieve a morally correct outcome?</p><p></p><p>How would that affect your game?</p><p></p><p>On the flip side, if you worked at WoTC and were tasked with the above, how would you approach it? What kind of moral code/framework you would you draw from?</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: updated the + section for clarity</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emoshin, post: 8935850, member: 7040377"] [B]This is a + thread 🙏[/B] The intent of this + thread is to offer a psychologically-safe and [B]efficient[/B] and [B]effective[/B] option to discuss the basic premise described below. By participating in this thread, please make positive contributions to the premise. If you don't agree with the below premise, that's totally valid. Just asking you to refrain from arguing about that here in [I][B]this[/B][/I] thread. Last but not least, due to the sensitive nature of this topic, please don't make assertions about other people or their games or their moral code. [B]An insight from a small and humble poll[/B] When asked [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/which-of-these-possible-endings-do-you-prefer-to-see-in-every-published-adventure-as-written.695146/']"Which of these endgames do you like to see in every WoTC 5E adventure as written?"[/URL], these have been among the popular answers: [LIST] [*]At least one heroically "good" ending (PC can achieve a morally correct outcome) [*]And I am good with [2 or more] possible endings examined & explored in the adventure as written [/LIST] While not a scientifically accurate representation of the entire D&D 5E community, this poll may suggest that a significant* number of D&D 5E players prefer each WoTC 5E published adventure [B][I]as-written[/I][/B] to examine and explore a number of suggested endings, one of which should have a "good" / morally correct outcome. This + thread treats this idea as an "invitation" to engage in some hypotheticals... * albeit an estimated percentage is not possible to assert without robust data [B]But wait, what is heroically "good" and "morally correct" anyway?[/B] When we run or (re)write adventures for our own group, chatGPT says: And what if you are a writer at WoTC? If tasked with including a "good" ending with every adventure, how do you navigate the issue of every gaming table having different expectations and moral codes in the fiction? This reminds me of a book called "How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question" by Michael Schur. The author seemed to be in a somewhat analogous situation, trying to define good and bad in the fiction for the TV show "The Good Place". Here's an excerpt: Now I have zilch experience at moral philosophy, so I found this book very interesting. For example, it describes The Trolley Problem -- in essence, is it OK to cause the death of one person in order to prevent a bunch of other people from not dying? And then goes about explaining ways of approaching this thought experiment. The Trolley Problem reminds me of potential situations in D&D too, such as: is it "good" or "evil" to extrajudicially murder a handful of brainwashed cultists who are actively trying to summon the elder god from destroying the entire city full of innocent people? You may have your own, even trickier, example from a previous game. One possibility is, since the fiction is never set in stone, the author could attempt to avoid writing the kind of story that expressly puts the PCs in morally ambiguous situations. Another possibility is when the author writes the adventure story that sets up morally challenging scenario, but not really provide any suggested guidance of good and bad, which may obfuscate understanding of what exactly is the heroically "good" / morally correct outcome that some D&D gamers prefer to see in the adventure as written. [B]OK, what if...?[/B] Hypothetically, what if every WoTC 5E adventure [B][I]as-written[/I][/B] examined & explored 2 or more suggested endings, including at least one heroically "good" ending where the PCs can achieve a morally correct outcome? How would that affect your game? On the flip side, if you worked at WoTC and were tasked with the above, how would you approach it? What kind of moral code/framework you would you draw from? EDIT: updated the + section for clarity [/QUOTE]
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