Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[AD&D 1st] Godless/Animist Clerics?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5813532" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I'm inclined to disagree with that assessment of the Druid class. The Druid class has a very limited relationship to anything but itself, and while it's got amazing creativity and thought put into it, it really isn't modeled on anything. We know virtually nothing about the real Druid of history, but one thing we can be certain of is that it had nothing to do with the Druid of D&D at all. We don't know even to what extent the Druid was an animistic priest or a polytheistic one. We know nothing of their rituals or beliefs. Virtually everything that people think they know about the Druids - mistletoe, holly, sickles, long beards, astronomy, nature loving, robes, etc. - is entirely a whole cloth invention by various writers with various agendas in the 15th century and even the 19th century. The 'Druid' as a fantasy role-playing class has become its own archetype based on the Druid, in the same way that the Ranger as a fantasy role-playing class is only barely based on its inspiration in the Lord of the Rings (Aragorn for example never uses a bow at any point in the books) and is instead now mostly self-referentially based on itself.</p><p></p><p>I am uncertain what exactly you are trying to model. You seem hung up on flavor requirements, yet you don't seem to be bothered by Brigid, Balder, or Wotan being worshiped by Great Druids who have to fight to assume the position, can shape change into animals, and who hold mistletoe to be sacred and use it all their rites while wielding sickles and Egyptian kopesh. If you really feel the need to closely mechanically model individual priesthoods, you'll have to use something like the specialty priesthood mechanics of 2e and roll your own class(es). Or you could use the 1e class as is, and just roll your own flavor. In 3e, I tend to use the Green Ronin shaman class in the roles you seem to be focused on, and it would be a bit of work to back port it to 1e but there is a lot of compatibility to between the two in the spell lists and its basically a straight port.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Honestly, if you are doing northwestern Europeans, you'd probably model a lot of them as Bards.... though granted, the Bard itself has taken on a life of its own and its no longer well grounded in the inspiration of the Kalevala.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just as is. Undead are evil spirits and the clerics naturally have the ability to rebuke them because of the knowledge that they have of spiritual matters. Exorcism is not a uniquely Christian concept, and indeed, compared to animistic religions its not even a central rite.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ignored in most cases, and expanded to include something other than the high middle ages concept of what it means to be a knight where applicable. For example, what does a 'knight' look like in 4th century Sweden, shorn of its southern European romantic high medieval notions? It's a low born warrior mercenary, akin more to the notion of bandit than the plate mail wearing crusader of Hollywood or concensus fantasy. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By understanding that the role of an animistic cleric, even as devotee, is different than the monotheistic conception. In this case, 'devotee' can mean things like 'vassal', 'ally', 'employee', or even 'customer'. The priest performs rituals that appease or please some otherworldly power in exchange for power and favors. It's less a matter of serving as it is a matter of buying things from the diety. Thus, you might not even like the diety you are nominally associated with. It may simply be that it doesn't rain unless you give the deity his yearly human sacrifice, and the kidneys of six spring lambs, and a jug of wine every year and for the good of the community well that's what you do. Meanwhile you aren't in an exclusive relationship. Polytheism is just that, and by monotheistic conceptions, its promiscuous in its worship. You go ahead and worship the god in a particular oak tree (a dryad?) if that gets you what you want. Polytheistic gods aren't typically 'jealous' so long as they get what they want. Indeed, there may be an assumption that you worship all of the gods to prevent one from being jealous and offended by you paying special attention to another one. You end up with a long list of things you must do to keep everyone happy, petty spiteful things that gods tend to be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5813532, member: 4937"] I'm inclined to disagree with that assessment of the Druid class. The Druid class has a very limited relationship to anything but itself, and while it's got amazing creativity and thought put into it, it really isn't modeled on anything. We know virtually nothing about the real Druid of history, but one thing we can be certain of is that it had nothing to do with the Druid of D&D at all. We don't know even to what extent the Druid was an animistic priest or a polytheistic one. We know nothing of their rituals or beliefs. Virtually everything that people think they know about the Druids - mistletoe, holly, sickles, long beards, astronomy, nature loving, robes, etc. - is entirely a whole cloth invention by various writers with various agendas in the 15th century and even the 19th century. The 'Druid' as a fantasy role-playing class has become its own archetype based on the Druid, in the same way that the Ranger as a fantasy role-playing class is only barely based on its inspiration in the Lord of the Rings (Aragorn for example never uses a bow at any point in the books) and is instead now mostly self-referentially based on itself. I am uncertain what exactly you are trying to model. You seem hung up on flavor requirements, yet you don't seem to be bothered by Brigid, Balder, or Wotan being worshiped by Great Druids who have to fight to assume the position, can shape change into animals, and who hold mistletoe to be sacred and use it all their rites while wielding sickles and Egyptian kopesh. If you really feel the need to closely mechanically model individual priesthoods, you'll have to use something like the specialty priesthood mechanics of 2e and roll your own class(es). Or you could use the 1e class as is, and just roll your own flavor. In 3e, I tend to use the Green Ronin shaman class in the roles you seem to be focused on, and it would be a bit of work to back port it to 1e but there is a lot of compatibility to between the two in the spell lists and its basically a straight port. Honestly, if you are doing northwestern Europeans, you'd probably model a lot of them as Bards.... though granted, the Bard itself has taken on a life of its own and its no longer well grounded in the inspiration of the Kalevala. Just as is. Undead are evil spirits and the clerics naturally have the ability to rebuke them because of the knowledge that they have of spiritual matters. Exorcism is not a uniquely Christian concept, and indeed, compared to animistic religions its not even a central rite. Ignored in most cases, and expanded to include something other than the high middle ages concept of what it means to be a knight where applicable. For example, what does a 'knight' look like in 4th century Sweden, shorn of its southern European romantic high medieval notions? It's a low born warrior mercenary, akin more to the notion of bandit than the plate mail wearing crusader of Hollywood or concensus fantasy. By understanding that the role of an animistic cleric, even as devotee, is different than the monotheistic conception. In this case, 'devotee' can mean things like 'vassal', 'ally', 'employee', or even 'customer'. The priest performs rituals that appease or please some otherworldly power in exchange for power and favors. It's less a matter of serving as it is a matter of buying things from the diety. Thus, you might not even like the diety you are nominally associated with. It may simply be that it doesn't rain unless you give the deity his yearly human sacrifice, and the kidneys of six spring lambs, and a jug of wine every year and for the good of the community well that's what you do. Meanwhile you aren't in an exclusive relationship. Polytheism is just that, and by monotheistic conceptions, its promiscuous in its worship. You go ahead and worship the god in a particular oak tree (a dryad?) if that gets you what you want. Polytheistic gods aren't typically 'jealous' so long as they get what they want. Indeed, there may be an assumption that you worship all of the gods to prevent one from being jealous and offended by you paying special attention to another one. You end up with a long list of things you must do to keep everyone happy, petty spiteful things that gods tend to be. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[AD&D 1st] Godless/Animist Clerics?
Top