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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9053609" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Is there any RPG that is worse for "story now" RPGing than AD&D? Off the top of my head, I'm not sure I can think of one.</p><p></p><p>I know that RM is no worse, and probably better. Ron Edwards cut his teeth on Champions. GURPS, RQ and other "purist-for-system" simulationist RPGs would all seem to offer the same general possibilities here: loving detail in character build, the prospect of high stakes and drama within at least a limited domain (combat), and a general focus on "seriousness". RPGs like Pendragon, The One Ring, Ars Magica, Vampire and similar would probably fit in here too.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps a case could be made the CoC is worse, because GM-driven stakes and deprotagonisation are so inherent to CoC play.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, though "vanilla narrativism" is possible both with AD&D and RM - I report this from experience - these days I wouldn't recommend them. What are they bringing to the table that something like Torchbearer (in lieu of AD&D) or Burning Wheel (in lieu of RM) is not? Or, if you're really into the D&Disms, 4e D&D?</p><p></p><p>I don't deny having a nostalgic fondness for AD&D, with its colourful class distinctions, spell lists and magic items. But as a system it is so rickety, at nearly every point - framing, outside a fairly narrow dungeon or hex-crawl context; establishing stakes (save-or-die extends this issue even to combat); resolving action declarations (other than attacks, saving throws, and dealing with doors and similar portals) - that trying to do anything with it beyond what Arneson and Gygax designed it for seems pretty fraught to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9053609, member: 42582"] Is there any RPG that is worse for "story now" RPGing than AD&D? Off the top of my head, I'm not sure I can think of one. I know that RM is no worse, and probably better. Ron Edwards cut his teeth on Champions. GURPS, RQ and other "purist-for-system" simulationist RPGs would all seem to offer the same general possibilities here: loving detail in character build, the prospect of high stakes and drama within at least a limited domain (combat), and a general focus on "seriousness". RPGs like Pendragon, The One Ring, Ars Magica, Vampire and similar would probably fit in here too. Perhaps a case could be made the CoC is worse, because GM-driven stakes and deprotagonisation are so inherent to CoC play. Anyway, though "vanilla narrativism" is possible both with AD&D and RM - I report this from experience - these days I wouldn't recommend them. What are they bringing to the table that something like Torchbearer (in lieu of AD&D) or Burning Wheel (in lieu of RM) is not? Or, if you're really into the D&Disms, 4e D&D? I don't deny having a nostalgic fondness for AD&D, with its colourful class distinctions, spell lists and magic items. But as a system it is so rickety, at nearly every point - framing, outside a fairly narrow dungeon or hex-crawl context; establishing stakes (save-or-die extends this issue even to combat); resolving action declarations (other than attacks, saving throws, and dealing with doors and similar portals) - that trying to do anything with it beyond what Arneson and Gygax designed it for seems pretty fraught to me. [/QUOTE]
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