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airwalkrr's Rise of the Runelords AE PBP Reborn! [OOC]
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<blockquote data-quote="perrinmiller" data-source="post: 6434700" data-attributes="member: 88649"><p><u><strong>Re: Meta-game Knowledge:</strong></u></p><p>Most GMs that I know fall into providing the meta-game knowledge from the beginning of combat or do not provide anything at all. It is a philosophical difference in style. It is quite clear to me that Airwalkrr is falling into the writing trumps gameplay camp. This actually matches the GMing style that both Mowgli and I use already. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>I have been DMing PbP for over 4 years now, and after the first year I learned that the meta-game knowledge of providing Enemy ACs, HPs, and few other things really made no difference on the combat decision making of my players. From the description of things, they still knew who the Boss bad guys were and minions were minions. So there was no real downside to providing the information.</p><p></p><p>The advantage of providing it is much better in the balance of things. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I would use the term Player Self Resolve instead of Players Roll All Dice to be more accurate on the terminology. Because that is what really speeds along combat in PbP. Every time the action stops to wait for the GM to adjudicate a player’s action/dice roll is an unnecessary delay. Knowing HPs and ACs allows the players to move things along themselves. This game is already being advertised as not being tactically focused, so this policy falls right in line with the game’s focus.</p><p></p><p>I have used “??/?? HP” for certain foes in my games. Particularly when there are multiple special bad guys and it helped to prevent meta-gaming on who the real main boss was or to hide the fact an enemy had DR or something. During mid-combat that information would come out and be revealed. But not knowing that information never slowed down the game.</p><p></p><p>Bottom Line: I am fully in favor of providing meta-game knowledge to self-resolve during combat.</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Re: Magic Attack score versus player’s rolling Enemy Saves:</strong></u></p><p>I would use the Saving throws instead, because I see no reason to be different than published rules on that issue. </p><p></p><p>While I advocate the meta-game knowledge of ACs and HPs, I have not provided enemy Saving Throws myself or any other GM. Nor have I pushed the Saving throws to the players before. While it can slow things up in combat needing a GM to update mid-round, I have personally found that the GM needs have a hand in adjudicating those situations more often. I have found that there are more mistakes made by players using Magic compared to mundane hacking & slashing during combat. A little GM quality control is necessary and a fair trade in the slight slowdown in combat.</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Re: Armor as DR:</strong></u></p><p>I am in agreement with others that those rules are actually increasing complications for no real benefit. While I understand the argument that heavy armor would stop more damage, the realism is not an issue with armor but in how people view HPs in d20 games.</p><p></p><p>Historically, D&D/PF really have not rooted HP into reality very well. I recently looked at D&D 5e and that is probably the better of the descriptions for what HP represents.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In all d20 games, even when you take damage that reduces your character to 1 HP remaining, you are still 100% combat capable. Therefore HP is not a reflection of being wounded at all.</p><p></p><p>Realistically that character reduced to 1 HP is not half dead or even almost dead. That arrow that nearly killed them is not sticking through their leg, because if it was they would have their movement rate reduced and have blood loss draining more HP away. Nor can it be in their chest because that would probably be worse. Even a superficial flesh wound would degrade and impact combat efficiency and performance.</p><p></p><p>Also, bleeding damage is actually a thing that is mechanically different, sapping your HP over time. So if a character was actually wounded, they would of course be bleeding and draining more HP.</p><p></p><p>The only way I am finding to realistically describe damage that does not reduce a character to 0 HP or lower is to assume the damage is mainly superficial. Otherwise it really doesn't make much sense. When you consider HP from that point of view, then the whole discussion about armor absorbing damage becomes moot. The higher AC reflects that they take less impacts to their will to continue fighting (read loss of HP).</p><p></p><p>From a cinematic point of view, I don't see the Armor is DR variant really changing what HP represents and only complicates the normal system for no real benefit. Pretty much any damage taken that doesn't drop a character to 0HP or below is really just battering and bruising.</p><p></p><p>I also question the balance of the rule variant. I think it was a marketing gimmick to add in a variant rule to PF that was in 3.5ed D&D.</p><p></p><p>If we are voting, I would vote against adopting the Armor as DR rule.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="perrinmiller, post: 6434700, member: 88649"] [U][b]Re: Meta-game Knowledge:[/b][/U] Most GMs that I know fall into providing the meta-game knowledge from the beginning of combat or do not provide anything at all. It is a philosophical difference in style. It is quite clear to me that Airwalkrr is falling into the writing trumps gameplay camp. This actually matches the GMing style that both Mowgli and I use already. ;) I have been DMing PbP for over 4 years now, and after the first year I learned that the meta-game knowledge of providing Enemy ACs, HPs, and few other things really made no difference on the combat decision making of my players. From the description of things, they still knew who the Boss bad guys were and minions were minions. So there was no real downside to providing the information. The advantage of providing it is much better in the balance of things. :) I would use the term Player Self Resolve instead of Players Roll All Dice to be more accurate on the terminology. Because that is what really speeds along combat in PbP. Every time the action stops to wait for the GM to adjudicate a player’s action/dice roll is an unnecessary delay. Knowing HPs and ACs allows the players to move things along themselves. This game is already being advertised as not being tactically focused, so this policy falls right in line with the game’s focus. I have used “??/?? HP” for certain foes in my games. Particularly when there are multiple special bad guys and it helped to prevent meta-gaming on who the real main boss was or to hide the fact an enemy had DR or something. During mid-combat that information would come out and be revealed. But not knowing that information never slowed down the game. Bottom Line: I am fully in favor of providing meta-game knowledge to self-resolve during combat. [U][b]Re: Magic Attack score versus player’s rolling Enemy Saves:[/b][/U] I would use the Saving throws instead, because I see no reason to be different than published rules on that issue. While I advocate the meta-game knowledge of ACs and HPs, I have not provided enemy Saving Throws myself or any other GM. Nor have I pushed the Saving throws to the players before. While it can slow things up in combat needing a GM to update mid-round, I have personally found that the GM needs have a hand in adjudicating those situations more often. I have found that there are more mistakes made by players using Magic compared to mundane hacking & slashing during combat. A little GM quality control is necessary and a fair trade in the slight slowdown in combat. [U][b]Re: Armor as DR:[/b][/U] I am in agreement with others that those rules are actually increasing complications for no real benefit. While I understand the argument that heavy armor would stop more damage, the realism is not an issue with armor but in how people view HPs in d20 games. Historically, D&D/PF really have not rooted HP into reality very well. I recently looked at D&D 5e and that is probably the better of the descriptions for what HP represents. In all d20 games, even when you take damage that reduces your character to 1 HP remaining, you are still 100% combat capable. Therefore HP is not a reflection of being wounded at all. Realistically that character reduced to 1 HP is not half dead or even almost dead. That arrow that nearly killed them is not sticking through their leg, because if it was they would have their movement rate reduced and have blood loss draining more HP away. Nor can it be in their chest because that would probably be worse. Even a superficial flesh wound would degrade and impact combat efficiency and performance. Also, bleeding damage is actually a thing that is mechanically different, sapping your HP over time. So if a character was actually wounded, they would of course be bleeding and draining more HP. The only way I am finding to realistically describe damage that does not reduce a character to 0 HP or lower is to assume the damage is mainly superficial. Otherwise it really doesn't make much sense. When you consider HP from that point of view, then the whole discussion about armor absorbing damage becomes moot. The higher AC reflects that they take less impacts to their will to continue fighting (read loss of HP). From a cinematic point of view, I don't see the Armor is DR variant really changing what HP represents and only complicates the normal system for no real benefit. Pretty much any damage taken that doesn't drop a character to 0HP or below is really just battering and bruising. I also question the balance of the rule variant. I think it was a marketing gimmick to add in a variant rule to PF that was in 3.5ed D&D. If we are voting, I would vote against adopting the Armor as DR rule. [/QUOTE]
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