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airwalkrr's Rise of the Runelords AE PBP Reborn! [OOC]
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<blockquote data-quote="perrinmiller" data-source="post: 6437275" data-attributes="member: 88649"><p>I see what you are worried about, airwalkrr. 1st level (and even 2nd level) is common to have that one combat that drags out for 10 rounds as both sides have a few rounds where neither side lands a blow. Oddly enough every single one of those battles I have experienced involved DR on the monsters (Skeletons and Fey). After 3rd level, I have rarely seen that happen though. So if the variant rule is strictly to speed up combat then it is most applicable to provide the analysis at level 1.</p><p></p><p>Goblins have AC16 normally. This will be Defense 14 with DR2/Armor. That means the chance to hit increases by 10%. For the character using a Longsword with Str 14, the average damage would be 6.5, and the DR would drop that to 4.5. That is a 25% reduction to the value of that 1d8 roll. If that character had a great axe, that would a 17% reduction. Initially, that would appear to be a bad trade.</p><p></p><p>Over 20 rounds with a Character's +3 Attack Bonus Longsword (Str 14): Normal Rules would average 8 Hits for 6.5 dmg = 52 total. Compared to Armor as DR averaging 10 hits for 4.5 dmg = 45 total. Less overall damage.</p><p></p><p>Take Kelvyn as a second example: +5 Earthbreaker (2d6+6). He is going to hit 10% more often, but he will still kill a goblin with 5 hp in one shot. So he would benefit from the variant against goblins because his minimum damage after DR can still kill. </p><p></p><p>But Kelvyn against a Bugbear (Def 12, DR5/Armor, 16HP) it would be: Normal Rules would average 9 Hits for 13 dmg = 117 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 14 hits for 8 dmg = 112 total. His halberd is would be 9 hits for 11.5 dmg = 103.5 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 14 hits for 6.5 dmg = 91 total. </p><p></p><p>Jamir with his shortbow is going to be pitiful. +2 Shortbow (1d6): Versus Goblins, Normal Rules would average 6 Hits for 3.5 dmg = 21 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 8 hits for 1.5 dmg = 12 total. He will not even be able to get lucky and one hit drop a goblin without a critical hit. Against the Bugbear it is even worse, Normal Rules would average 5 Hits for 3.5 dmg = 17.5 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 10 hits for 0 dmg = 2 total (if he rolled two 6's on the damage for arrows on those 10 hits). </p><p></p><p>I actually think the variant rule will have the opposite effect, airwalkrr. We might have more hits, but combat could easily take longer. </p><p></p><p>The variant also appears to heavily favor the melee character with high strength and high armor. If Kelvyn wears scalemail, he can wade into a horde of goblins with his earthbreaker and come away with no damage unless he gets hit with a critical. That is going to be boring and no fun for the rest of the players. Why would I even bother to waste a spell or even shoot and arrow?</p><p></p><p>Bottom Line for Armor as DR:</p><p>Cons: more complicated, probably unbalanced, potentially slows down combat, and takes away fun for characters without high damage attacks. </p><p>Pros: None.</p><p></p><p> I am wondering why we need a different rule variant for magical attacks. If we need the GM to provide meta-information on Saving Throws to self resolve magical spells anyway, then why not just allow players to roll the saving throw for the GM in that case?</p><p></p><p> Kinem switched to wizard, so we have plenty of arcane support but we are now slightly weaker on melee strength. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="perrinmiller, post: 6437275, member: 88649"] I see what you are worried about, airwalkrr. 1st level (and even 2nd level) is common to have that one combat that drags out for 10 rounds as both sides have a few rounds where neither side lands a blow. Oddly enough every single one of those battles I have experienced involved DR on the monsters (Skeletons and Fey). After 3rd level, I have rarely seen that happen though. So if the variant rule is strictly to speed up combat then it is most applicable to provide the analysis at level 1. Goblins have AC16 normally. This will be Defense 14 with DR2/Armor. That means the chance to hit increases by 10%. For the character using a Longsword with Str 14, the average damage would be 6.5, and the DR would drop that to 4.5. That is a 25% reduction to the value of that 1d8 roll. If that character had a great axe, that would a 17% reduction. Initially, that would appear to be a bad trade. Over 20 rounds with a Character's +3 Attack Bonus Longsword (Str 14): Normal Rules would average 8 Hits for 6.5 dmg = 52 total. Compared to Armor as DR averaging 10 hits for 4.5 dmg = 45 total. Less overall damage. Take Kelvyn as a second example: +5 Earthbreaker (2d6+6). He is going to hit 10% more often, but he will still kill a goblin with 5 hp in one shot. So he would benefit from the variant against goblins because his minimum damage after DR can still kill. But Kelvyn against a Bugbear (Def 12, DR5/Armor, 16HP) it would be: Normal Rules would average 9 Hits for 13 dmg = 117 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 14 hits for 8 dmg = 112 total. His halberd is would be 9 hits for 11.5 dmg = 103.5 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 14 hits for 6.5 dmg = 91 total. Jamir with his shortbow is going to be pitiful. +2 Shortbow (1d6): Versus Goblins, Normal Rules would average 6 Hits for 3.5 dmg = 21 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 8 hits for 1.5 dmg = 12 total. He will not even be able to get lucky and one hit drop a goblin without a critical hit. Against the Bugbear it is even worse, Normal Rules would average 5 Hits for 3.5 dmg = 17.5 total, compared to Armor as DR averaging 10 hits for 0 dmg = 2 total (if he rolled two 6's on the damage for arrows on those 10 hits). I actually think the variant rule will have the opposite effect, airwalkrr. We might have more hits, but combat could easily take longer. The variant also appears to heavily favor the melee character with high strength and high armor. If Kelvyn wears scalemail, he can wade into a horde of goblins with his earthbreaker and come away with no damage unless he gets hit with a critical. That is going to be boring and no fun for the rest of the players. Why would I even bother to waste a spell or even shoot and arrow? Bottom Line for Armor as DR: Cons: more complicated, probably unbalanced, potentially slows down combat, and takes away fun for characters without high damage attacks. Pros: None. I am wondering why we need a different rule variant for magical attacks. If we need the GM to provide meta-information on Saving Throws to self resolve magical spells anyway, then why not just allow players to roll the saving throw for the GM in that case? Kinem switched to wizard, so we have plenty of arcane support but we are now slightly weaker on melee strength. ;) [/QUOTE]
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