Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
AL VS LFR of 4th and why I'm so disappointed
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Pauper" data-source="post: 6811686" data-attributes="member: 17607"><p>So again, you're cherry-picking one specific thing to criticize when there are other options available within the program that fix precisely what you say the problem is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are 381 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the United States. If we take a generous estimate and say that the Bay Area is at the high end of average, that gives us roughly 75,000 players in the US. The real number is almost certainly lower. And while AL is played in other areas around the world, it would be a stretch for me to say that over twice as many players exist outside the US as within it, as much of the material for AL is only available in English.</p><p></p><p>Besides, the great question isn't 'how many people are playing AL', but 'how many people aren't playing AL who would if it were available to them'. If WotC is going to spend resources on the program, they're going to most effectively spend it increasing the reach and scope of the program, not by catering to the least satisfied people already in it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Skerrit has addressed this point, which hasn't been true since Season 2. Again, you seem to be arguing from a position of changing the program to suit you rather than changing it to suit the largest number of current and potential players.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I played DDEX 1-10, Tyranny in Phlan. On the title page, it reads: "Adventure Design: Greg Marks", whom if you don't know is Skerrit. If you're interested in the Melisande sub-plot, then you probably also played DDEX 1-3, Shadows Over the Moonsea, also designed by Skerrit. I've played DDEX 2-6, Breath of the Yellow Rose repeatedly -- at least three different characters in my stable have that one on their log, as it was a blast. I haven't yet played DDEX 2-11, Oubliette of Fort Iron, but I've heard good things. It's possible DDAO-3 isn't very good, but based on the other mods I've played by the same author, I wouldn't expect that. Would I play it if it was run at a con near me? Sure, even though the subject doesn't really excite me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, wow. This is so not going to end well for you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's the population breakdown of Calimshan, from the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the first FR setting in which genasi were a playable race:</p><p></p><p>Human 94%</p><p>Half-Orcs 2%</p><p>Halflings 2%</p><p>Half-Elves 1%</p><p>Others 1%</p><p></p><p>There are literally over twice as many half-orcs in Calimshan as there are genasi. The specifics may have changed over the intervening editions, but the point of Calimshan is that the elemental races enslaved the humans living there -- which was the entire arc of the Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan story area, where the human ruler of Calimport tried to set the other two cities against each other in order to weaken them to the point where his armies could free their human slaves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because there are also way more half-elves in Calimshan than there are genasi, maybe?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, the specific 'genasi with Greenflame Blade' is an option you can't use. You can be a genasi, or you can have Greenflame Blade, but you can't have both. Sorry you feel that breaks immersion.</p><p></p><p>And thanks for confirming that the version of Calimshan you're referring to is the one that only exists in your own mind.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who is going to do that analysis? Who has the time to comb through, playtest all the material with all the other material that already exists, and then decide which of it is broken and which isn't? Doing things the way you want to do them would either mean we couldn't play with the SCAG for a year or two after release because it would still be 'in testing', or there would be tons of broken stuff that would slip through the cracks, which we know would happen because that's exactly what happened in LFR.</p><p></p><p>I'm not claiming the current system is perfect, but it does what it's set out to do without needlessly holding up the ability of players to access the new material. If you don't see how that's a far better solution than LFR (created by a lot of people who have first-hand knowledge of how LFR broke), then I don't see how I'm going to be able to convince you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now I know you're trolling me. The 'magic item distribution method' in MyRealms season 3 was 'Bundle X', the infamous, 'choose any item you want that matches your character level and isn't rare'. Incorporating that into Adventurers League would wholly break the current treasure distribution system, as all the items the admins have kept out of the system via treasure in existing modules would come flowing in via the MyRealms option. This is a TERRIBLE idea.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Season 1 MyRealms was somewhat restricted, in that you could only take an item of your level from one of the Player's Handbook books (PH, PH2, PH3). In Season 3, they opened up Bundle X and the floodgates opened. Though technically, you're right in the sense that you had no need to 'farm' MyRealms to get bundle X, because it was in every mod, but the ability to play two or even three farm-designed MyRealms in the same time as you played a single regular mod meant that you could do some serious farming. Just because you didn't do it doesn't mean it wasn't done, believe me.</p><p></p><p>And, of course, if you want to confirm the things I'm saying about MyRealms, the <a href="http://www.livingforgottenrealms.com/adventures.html#myrealms" target="_blank">Season 1 and 2 MyRealms packs</a>, as well as the <a href="http://livingforgottenrealms.com/" target="_blank">Season 3 and 4 packs</a>, are still available online. Because, y'know, actually looking stuff up works a whole lot better than just pulling stuff out of your butt.</p><p></p><p>--</p><p>Pauper</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pauper, post: 6811686, member: 17607"] So again, you're cherry-picking one specific thing to criticize when there are other options available within the program that fix precisely what you say the problem is. There are 381 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the United States. If we take a generous estimate and say that the Bay Area is at the high end of average, that gives us roughly 75,000 players in the US. The real number is almost certainly lower. And while AL is played in other areas around the world, it would be a stretch for me to say that over twice as many players exist outside the US as within it, as much of the material for AL is only available in English. Besides, the great question isn't 'how many people are playing AL', but 'how many people aren't playing AL who would if it were available to them'. If WotC is going to spend resources on the program, they're going to most effectively spend it increasing the reach and scope of the program, not by catering to the least satisfied people already in it. Skerrit has addressed this point, which hasn't been true since Season 2. Again, you seem to be arguing from a position of changing the program to suit you rather than changing it to suit the largest number of current and potential players. Well, I played DDEX 1-10, Tyranny in Phlan. On the title page, it reads: "Adventure Design: Greg Marks", whom if you don't know is Skerrit. If you're interested in the Melisande sub-plot, then you probably also played DDEX 1-3, Shadows Over the Moonsea, also designed by Skerrit. I've played DDEX 2-6, Breath of the Yellow Rose repeatedly -- at least three different characters in my stable have that one on their log, as it was a blast. I haven't yet played DDEX 2-11, Oubliette of Fort Iron, but I've heard good things. It's possible DDAO-3 isn't very good, but based on the other mods I've played by the same author, I wouldn't expect that. Would I play it if it was run at a con near me? Sure, even though the subject doesn't really excite me. Oh, wow. This is so not going to end well for you. Here's the population breakdown of Calimshan, from the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the first FR setting in which genasi were a playable race: Human 94% Half-Orcs 2% Halflings 2% Half-Elves 1% Others 1% There are literally over twice as many half-orcs in Calimshan as there are genasi. The specifics may have changed over the intervening editions, but the point of Calimshan is that the elemental races enslaved the humans living there -- which was the entire arc of the Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan story area, where the human ruler of Calimport tried to set the other two cities against each other in order to weaken them to the point where his armies could free their human slaves. Because there are also way more half-elves in Calimshan than there are genasi, maybe? Yes, the specific 'genasi with Greenflame Blade' is an option you can't use. You can be a genasi, or you can have Greenflame Blade, but you can't have both. Sorry you feel that breaks immersion. And thanks for confirming that the version of Calimshan you're referring to is the one that only exists in your own mind. Who is going to do that analysis? Who has the time to comb through, playtest all the material with all the other material that already exists, and then decide which of it is broken and which isn't? Doing things the way you want to do them would either mean we couldn't play with the SCAG for a year or two after release because it would still be 'in testing', or there would be tons of broken stuff that would slip through the cracks, which we know would happen because that's exactly what happened in LFR. I'm not claiming the current system is perfect, but it does what it's set out to do without needlessly holding up the ability of players to access the new material. If you don't see how that's a far better solution than LFR (created by a lot of people who have first-hand knowledge of how LFR broke), then I don't see how I'm going to be able to convince you. Now I know you're trolling me. The 'magic item distribution method' in MyRealms season 3 was 'Bundle X', the infamous, 'choose any item you want that matches your character level and isn't rare'. Incorporating that into Adventurers League would wholly break the current treasure distribution system, as all the items the admins have kept out of the system via treasure in existing modules would come flowing in via the MyRealms option. This is a TERRIBLE idea. Season 1 MyRealms was somewhat restricted, in that you could only take an item of your level from one of the Player's Handbook books (PH, PH2, PH3). In Season 3, they opened up Bundle X and the floodgates opened. Though technically, you're right in the sense that you had no need to 'farm' MyRealms to get bundle X, because it was in every mod, but the ability to play two or even three farm-designed MyRealms in the same time as you played a single regular mod meant that you could do some serious farming. Just because you didn't do it doesn't mean it wasn't done, believe me. And, of course, if you want to confirm the things I'm saying about MyRealms, the [URL="http://www.livingforgottenrealms.com/adventures.html#myrealms"]Season 1 and 2 MyRealms packs[/URL], as well as the [URL="http://livingforgottenrealms.com/"]Season 3 and 4 packs[/URL], are still available online. Because, y'know, actually looking stuff up works a whole lot better than just pulling stuff out of your butt. -- Pauper [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
AL VS LFR of 4th and why I'm so disappointed
Top