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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7397924" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>This stuff sounds awesome for a setting.</p><p></p><p>I was wondering about defining ‘positive energy’ as a physical manifestation of the ‘divine infinite light’. Thus the D&D plane of positivity would be infinite, thus impossible to enter, but possible to access to ‘illuminate’ the finite planes, thus making them more ideal. All things that exist would be created out of this small steady flow of energy shining into the finite universe from beyond.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For my personal tastes, I still perceive these kinds of celestials as more like angels and less like gods.</p><p></p><p>Gods are finite creatures that get worshiped.</p><p></p><p>The deep question is, is it good to worship an object just because that object is powerful? And for me, the answer is, it is less good to worship a finite object for any reason.</p><p></p><p>By contrast, an angel refuses to be worshiped personally, and always directs worship to the infinite beyond oneself, and beyond all things. Only the infinite is worshiped.</p><p></p><p>So despite the fact an angel can genuinely speak on behalf of infinite good − and wield power that derives from the infinite good − the angel knows it itself is not the entirety of infinity but only a limited framework within the finite.</p><p></p><p>When I try to make sense of angels, I think of them as personification of abstract patterns in the universe. But these are specifically personifications when the finite universe becomes open to the infinite, in tune with the infinite, and light from the infinite enters this universe (in the form of blessings such as health and success). So angels are sort of like windows in a finite room, thru which one can glimpse the infinite outside.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This process of divine energy becoming increasingly physical by layers, is cool.</p><p></p><p>Infinity → Celestial → Domain → Solar → Planetar → Deva</p><p></p><p>(Again, I feel these celestials also behave more like angels, who refuse to be worshiped personally.)</p><p></p><p>The increasingly physical manifestations make an intriguing setting, where it is possible to have encounters that are ‘more spiritual’, more abstract, more ideal, more concept oriented.</p><p></p><p>In the process between coming with an idea to implementing it to creating the final physical product, it is possible to talk to the idea itself.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Alternatively, the primordials are on purpose. Essentially, they are simply elementals, thus the stuff that the physical world is made out of. As pure finitude they are the furthest away from the infinite source. But because the physical world is so important, the primordials have an important job to do, sustaining the stuff of physical existence.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I see Far Realms as personifications of insanity. In this sense, they are the result when human spirituality becomes harmful and nonsensical.</p><p></p><p>Associating Lovecraft-esque Far Realms with D&D Yugoloths sounds appropriate.</p><p></p><p>I would say all evil powers are the *result* of humans misusing any blessings that come from good.</p><p></p><p>So, it is innocent when the finite ‘hides’ the infinite. But it is evil when humans abuse power, thus making the power a new kind of darkness.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is a reallife medieval tradition that all demons are spirits that are born in darkness, when a human does some malicious action. But when a human returns to atone and to try repair that malicious action, and do good instead, then this demon is also redeemed, and becomes one of the forces of the divine good. The demonic powers that were once used to do more evil, instead get used to do good. By the way, according to this same tradition, while this demon is evil, its main goal is to find a way to destroy the human that created it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 7397924, member: 58172"] This stuff sounds awesome for a setting. I was wondering about defining ‘positive energy’ as a physical manifestation of the ‘divine infinite light’. Thus the D&D plane of positivity would be infinite, thus impossible to enter, but possible to access to ‘illuminate’ the finite planes, thus making them more ideal. All things that exist would be created out of this small steady flow of energy shining into the finite universe from beyond. For my personal tastes, I still perceive these kinds of celestials as more like angels and less like gods. Gods are finite creatures that get worshiped. The deep question is, is it good to worship an object just because that object is powerful? And for me, the answer is, it is less good to worship a finite object for any reason. By contrast, an angel refuses to be worshiped personally, and always directs worship to the infinite beyond oneself, and beyond all things. Only the infinite is worshiped. So despite the fact an angel can genuinely speak on behalf of infinite good − and wield power that derives from the infinite good − the angel knows it itself is not the entirety of infinity but only a limited framework within the finite. When I try to make sense of angels, I think of them as personification of abstract patterns in the universe. But these are specifically personifications when the finite universe becomes open to the infinite, in tune with the infinite, and light from the infinite enters this universe (in the form of blessings such as health and success). So angels are sort of like windows in a finite room, thru which one can glimpse the infinite outside. This process of divine energy becoming increasingly physical by layers, is cool. Infinity → Celestial → Domain → Solar → Planetar → Deva (Again, I feel these celestials also behave more like angels, who refuse to be worshiped personally.) The increasingly physical manifestations make an intriguing setting, where it is possible to have encounters that are ‘more spiritual’, more abstract, more ideal, more concept oriented. In the process between coming with an idea to implementing it to creating the final physical product, it is possible to talk to the idea itself. Alternatively, the primordials are on purpose. Essentially, they are simply elementals, thus the stuff that the physical world is made out of. As pure finitude they are the furthest away from the infinite source. But because the physical world is so important, the primordials have an important job to do, sustaining the stuff of physical existence. I see Far Realms as personifications of insanity. In this sense, they are the result when human spirituality becomes harmful and nonsensical. Associating Lovecraft-esque Far Realms with D&D Yugoloths sounds appropriate. I would say all evil powers are the *result* of humans misusing any blessings that come from good. So, it is innocent when the finite ‘hides’ the infinite. But it is evil when humans abuse power, thus making the power a new kind of darkness. There is a reallife medieval tradition that all demons are spirits that are born in darkness, when a human does some malicious action. But when a human returns to atone and to try repair that malicious action, and do good instead, then this demon is also redeemed, and becomes one of the forces of the divine good. The demonic powers that were once used to do more evil, instead get used to do good. By the way, according to this same tradition, while this demon is evil, its main goal is to find a way to destroy the human that created it. [/QUOTE]
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