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Ampersand: Martial Rituals in Martial Power 2
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<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 4922443" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>Yeah, I may have come across as more opposing of the concept than I am, and it is definitely a very tricky line - partly because PCs do end up with these absurd capabilities that far outclass anything we can imagine someone doing in real life. </p><p></p><p>Social situations are the classic dilemma - if the player of a bard walks up to a bandit leader, calls him a punk, and then claims he's using Diplomacy to make the guy worship him because he rolled a 50, that's rather obnoxious. But it is also isn't cool to have the soft-spoken player with a character heavily invested in being diplomatic always have to take backseat to the Cha 8 dwarven fighter... whose player is a smooth talker. </p><p></p><p>There is no easy answer... but at the same time, I definitely recommend thinking things through before putting the burden so squarely on the player. If something genuinely doesn't make sense to you, that's fine, and the line will fall differently for everyone... but yeah, I've seen DMs who have abused this viewpoint in the past, and they were the worst DMs I've ever had. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now that is <em>absolutely</em> not true, and I will completely disagree here. Not <em>requiring</em> players to supply their assumed character's capabilities in no way means you cannot <em>reward</em> players when they do offer creative solutions or ideas that may take advantage of their skills in a clever way. </p><p></p><p>And, again, the presence of listed rules that let players make exceptional use of their skills with the proper training does not mean that those skills cannot still be used in their normal fashion, or still be used creatively in the right circumstances. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure how you read these rules as saying Bluff can't be used for disguises or forgery separate from this. This give specific rules on doing such things in an exceptional fashion - I think you are making several jumps in logic to conclude it removes all ability to use your skills outside of it.</p><p> </p><p>I'll try to look up page references when I get a spare moment, but don't have the time now - that said, if you genuinely feel the listed abilities here remove existing capabilities, I think we simply have a disagreement of viewpoint on how the rules are presented that isn't likely to be easily resolved.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 4922443, member: 61155"] Yeah, I may have come across as more opposing of the concept than I am, and it is definitely a very tricky line - partly because PCs do end up with these absurd capabilities that far outclass anything we can imagine someone doing in real life. Social situations are the classic dilemma - if the player of a bard walks up to a bandit leader, calls him a punk, and then claims he's using Diplomacy to make the guy worship him because he rolled a 50, that's rather obnoxious. But it is also isn't cool to have the soft-spoken player with a character heavily invested in being diplomatic always have to take backseat to the Cha 8 dwarven fighter... whose player is a smooth talker. There is no easy answer... but at the same time, I definitely recommend thinking things through before putting the burden so squarely on the player. If something genuinely doesn't make sense to you, that's fine, and the line will fall differently for everyone... but yeah, I've seen DMs who have abused this viewpoint in the past, and they were the worst DMs I've ever had. Now that is [I]absolutely[/I] not true, and I will completely disagree here. Not [I]requiring[/I] players to supply their assumed character's capabilities in no way means you cannot [I]reward[/I] players when they do offer creative solutions or ideas that may take advantage of their skills in a clever way. And, again, the presence of listed rules that let players make exceptional use of their skills with the proper training does not mean that those skills cannot still be used in their normal fashion, or still be used creatively in the right circumstances. I'm not sure how you read these rules as saying Bluff can't be used for disguises or forgery separate from this. This give specific rules on doing such things in an exceptional fashion - I think you are making several jumps in logic to conclude it removes all ability to use your skills outside of it. I'll try to look up page references when I get a spare moment, but don't have the time now - that said, if you genuinely feel the listed abilities here remove existing capabilities, I think we simply have a disagreement of viewpoint on how the rules are presented that isn't likely to be easily resolved. [/QUOTE]
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