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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7497992" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure...but combat is usually a LOT more easily deducible? With a 19, the PC is pretty sure he really should have 'hit' just about anyone...but the PC who just barely avoided stabbing himself in the foot probably draws the conclusion he wasn't going to hit the broad side of a barn with that swing. When the numbers get closer together, that's when it gets more tricky.</p><p></p><p>I don't tell the Players what the AC of the target is until someone actually hits it or comes within 1 point of it to either side (so yeah, if you roll 25 and the AC is 20 I'm NOT going to tell you it's AC 20). Sometimes this happens on the first swing of the first round...sometimes it doesn't happen for a while (or even ever in some cases).</p><p></p><p>In general I run my games more from the perspective of the PC's...not the Players looking at the sheets. This helps me understand the PC's individually as well as everyone else "getting" where a PC is coming from. I give more 'specific' info to PC's who would be able to logically have it...not just because they made a good roll necessarily. The closest I can come to explaining this shortly is lets say two PC's each get to make a History check to see if they recognize a particular coat of arms. Both PC's get the same result...a 17. PC A rolled a 14 +3 for stat, for a 17. PC B rolled a 13 +2 for stat and +2 for Proficiency, for a 17 total as well. I'll give the info to the PC who has the actual History skill, and would turn to the other PC who doesn't have it and possibly 'adjust' it to be ever so slightly different (e.g., "You agree that it is the Fellcray family coat of arms, but you can't remember if they were the good guys or the bad guys in the War of the Two Rivers"; while PC B would know more about their actual involvement in the War mentioned).</p><p></p><p>In short...your PC's history, background and 'write up', and actual Skills taken will tend to give you a more accurate and in-depth knowledge about something over someone who just has a high stat and rolled well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I said, combat is a little bit different...a little bit more 'obvious' to the PC's. So...the roll of 19 is almost a perfectly executed combat maneuver and SHOULD have hit just about anything. The roll of 2 is a complete and utter failure that may lead to some serious razzing and mocking after the fight ("Larry...wtf was that crazy double-side-step sideways-thrusting-slash thing you almost cut your own leg of with?! Seriously! Don't do that man! I almost busted out laughing in the middle of trying to not get my face eaten...shesh!... Oh, and Larry? You're buying tonight!" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you are misunderstanding how it all works in my game. Higher numbers always help the player, obviously...the games entire system is based on "high = good". However, just because one person rolls high and another doesn't does not equate to the same "information about pass/fail" being imparted to the individual PC. The players are free to RP how they see it...and my players will happily role-play making stupid/bad decisions based on what they perceive their characters to have, er, perceived. </p><p></p><p>What I was trying to get at with the Insight/Deception is that because there is no outwardly obvious "tell", to the majority of PC's, if someone is being untruthful, the player rolling high or low isn't a "dead giveaway" to the actual truth of the matter. Combat has more obvious/visual tells that can give a PC a pretty good idea of the capability of his opponent. </p><p></p><p>Now, brace yourself...something I DIDN'T mention in my original post that I really REALLY should have...is that with a lot of Player rolls regarding stuff their PC is "unaware of", I will either roll for them behind the screen, or have them drop a die behind the screen for me. I'll ask for their bonus to Insight, for example, or for their Stealth, or whatever. This is NOT done all the time. Often I'll just let the player roll his own Insight, Stealth, or whatever...because my players tend to not 'abuse' the high/low outcome of the die roll. So a roll of 19 and I still say "He seems to be telling the truth from what you can surmise", they will STILL have their character be a bit suspicious and will Roleplay accordingly. They may be "accepting" that the NPC isn't lying, but they'll still RP their PC "keeping an eye on him", and will ask other 'sneaky' questions throughout the game to see if the NPC messes up. </p><p></p><p>Me and most of my group have been playing together for a long time. We all "get" how we play and that's the point. What works at my table for my group may not work for others...and vice versa. That's the beauty of RPG'ing! All playing the same game, but nobody having the same experience! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7497992, member: 45197"] Hiya. Sure...but combat is usually a LOT more easily deducible? With a 19, the PC is pretty sure he really should have 'hit' just about anyone...but the PC who just barely avoided stabbing himself in the foot probably draws the conclusion he wasn't going to hit the broad side of a barn with that swing. When the numbers get closer together, that's when it gets more tricky. I don't tell the Players what the AC of the target is until someone actually hits it or comes within 1 point of it to either side (so yeah, if you roll 25 and the AC is 20 I'm NOT going to tell you it's AC 20). Sometimes this happens on the first swing of the first round...sometimes it doesn't happen for a while (or even ever in some cases). In general I run my games more from the perspective of the PC's...not the Players looking at the sheets. This helps me understand the PC's individually as well as everyone else "getting" where a PC is coming from. I give more 'specific' info to PC's who would be able to logically have it...not just because they made a good roll necessarily. The closest I can come to explaining this shortly is lets say two PC's each get to make a History check to see if they recognize a particular coat of arms. Both PC's get the same result...a 17. PC A rolled a 14 +3 for stat, for a 17. PC B rolled a 13 +2 for stat and +2 for Proficiency, for a 17 total as well. I'll give the info to the PC who has the actual History skill, and would turn to the other PC who doesn't have it and possibly 'adjust' it to be ever so slightly different (e.g., "You agree that it is the Fellcray family coat of arms, but you can't remember if they were the good guys or the bad guys in the War of the Two Rivers"; while PC B would know more about their actual involvement in the War mentioned). In short...your PC's history, background and 'write up', and actual Skills taken will tend to give you a more accurate and in-depth knowledge about something over someone who just has a high stat and rolled well. As I said, combat is a little bit different...a little bit more 'obvious' to the PC's. So...the roll of 19 is almost a perfectly executed combat maneuver and SHOULD have hit just about anything. The roll of 2 is a complete and utter failure that may lead to some serious razzing and mocking after the fight ("Larry...wtf was that crazy double-side-step sideways-thrusting-slash thing you almost cut your own leg of with?! Seriously! Don't do that man! I almost busted out laughing in the middle of trying to not get my face eaten...shesh!... Oh, and Larry? You're buying tonight!" ;) ). I think you are misunderstanding how it all works in my game. Higher numbers always help the player, obviously...the games entire system is based on "high = good". However, just because one person rolls high and another doesn't does not equate to the same "information about pass/fail" being imparted to the individual PC. The players are free to RP how they see it...and my players will happily role-play making stupid/bad decisions based on what they perceive their characters to have, er, perceived. What I was trying to get at with the Insight/Deception is that because there is no outwardly obvious "tell", to the majority of PC's, if someone is being untruthful, the player rolling high or low isn't a "dead giveaway" to the actual truth of the matter. Combat has more obvious/visual tells that can give a PC a pretty good idea of the capability of his opponent. Now, brace yourself...something I DIDN'T mention in my original post that I really REALLY should have...is that with a lot of Player rolls regarding stuff their PC is "unaware of", I will either roll for them behind the screen, or have them drop a die behind the screen for me. I'll ask for their bonus to Insight, for example, or for their Stealth, or whatever. This is NOT done all the time. Often I'll just let the player roll his own Insight, Stealth, or whatever...because my players tend to not 'abuse' the high/low outcome of the die roll. So a roll of 19 and I still say "He seems to be telling the truth from what you can surmise", they will STILL have their character be a bit suspicious and will Roleplay accordingly. They may be "accepting" that the NPC isn't lying, but they'll still RP their PC "keeping an eye on him", and will ask other 'sneaky' questions throughout the game to see if the NPC messes up. Me and most of my group have been playing together for a long time. We all "get" how we play and that's the point. What works at my table for my group may not work for others...and vice versa. That's the beauty of RPG'ing! All playing the same game, but nobody having the same experience! :D ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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