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<blockquote data-quote="erleni" data-source="post: 5976262" data-attributes="member: 69422"><p>Hello Defcon,</p><p> </p><p>there are many spells that have a deep impact on the way the game is played and combining them with the easy access a wizard has to them in 2e and 3e is what makes the wizard to be a problem at many tables. This extends to cleric and druid in 3e but let's look at the wizard as an example.</p><p> </p><p>1) Save or die spells: these are very powerful effects that are all or nothing. Very often they spoiled the fun in our games. When our 3.0 group met a Balor for the first time my wizard killed it with Finger of Death before it could take any action...</p><p> </p><p>2) Knock, fly, teleport, teleport without error: these spells bypass difficulties and completely change the way the game is played. I'd like to keep them but move them to rituals that can be accessed by everybody willing to pay the cost. So the wizard can "replace" the rogue if necessary by spending more resources, but any other class can do it too.</p><p> </p><p>3) Summoning: this is a real killer. You can use summoned creatures to trigger traps, to fight for you, and in many other ways. The more monsters are added to the list the more you risk loosing control.</p><p> </p><p>4) Polymorph/shapechange: once again here every monster added can add more trouble</p><p> </p><p>5) Scrying: scrying magic was the root of the scry/teleport/nuke tactics I've seen in 3e. When every vaguely important person in the world is lead-lining their homes you start to understand that something is going the wrong way.</p><p>One of my PCs even started a company that was protecting rooms and houses with lead panels...</p><p> </p><p>6) Other stuff: Evard's Black tentacles, wish, forcecage, stoneskin</p><p> </p><p>Vancian magic gives great versatility to the wizard and access to an incredibly wide array of possibilities, so even if you carefully check every spell for balance you still have a very powerful class. And if you don't then you get into a mess.</p><p> </p><p>The standard way to avoid vancian casters dominating the scene has been finding trump cards (magic resistance, disruption, dispel magic, need to rest) that lead to the casters looking for more trump cards (nap spell, lower magic resistance spell, penalties to saving throws, spells with no saves, spells that by-passed magic resistance).</p><p>When my 3e party faced a famous warrior, our wizard cast forcecage on him then invoked an Acid Fog over him and started to pepper him with other damage dealing spells until it was no more...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="erleni, post: 5976262, member: 69422"] Hello Defcon, there are many spells that have a deep impact on the way the game is played and combining them with the easy access a wizard has to them in 2e and 3e is what makes the wizard to be a problem at many tables. This extends to cleric and druid in 3e but let's look at the wizard as an example. 1) Save or die spells: these are very powerful effects that are all or nothing. Very often they spoiled the fun in our games. When our 3.0 group met a Balor for the first time my wizard killed it with Finger of Death before it could take any action... 2) Knock, fly, teleport, teleport without error: these spells bypass difficulties and completely change the way the game is played. I'd like to keep them but move them to rituals that can be accessed by everybody willing to pay the cost. So the wizard can "replace" the rogue if necessary by spending more resources, but any other class can do it too. 3) Summoning: this is a real killer. You can use summoned creatures to trigger traps, to fight for you, and in many other ways. The more monsters are added to the list the more you risk loosing control. 4) Polymorph/shapechange: once again here every monster added can add more trouble 5) Scrying: scrying magic was the root of the scry/teleport/nuke tactics I've seen in 3e. When every vaguely important person in the world is lead-lining their homes you start to understand that something is going the wrong way. One of my PCs even started a company that was protecting rooms and houses with lead panels... 6) Other stuff: Evard's Black tentacles, wish, forcecage, stoneskin Vancian magic gives great versatility to the wizard and access to an incredibly wide array of possibilities, so even if you carefully check every spell for balance you still have a very powerful class. And if you don't then you get into a mess. The standard way to avoid vancian casters dominating the scene has been finding trump cards (magic resistance, disruption, dispel magic, need to rest) that lead to the casters looking for more trump cards (nap spell, lower magic resistance spell, penalties to saving throws, spells with no saves, spells that by-passed magic resistance). When my 3e party faced a famous warrior, our wizard cast forcecage on him then invoked an Acid Fog over him and started to pepper him with other damage dealing spells until it was no more... [/QUOTE]
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