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another rpg industry doomsday article (merged: all 3 "Mishler Rant" threads)
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<blockquote data-quote="seskis281" data-source="post: 4867878" data-attributes="member: 41593"><p>Actually I have no problem with discussion - I just think it devolves into the personal too much - and I mean this on all sides.</p><p> </p><p>I appreciate Erik's clarification today, because it explains alot, and everyone can get snarky and too defensive - we're all just human - same thing with James folks... </p><p> </p><p>This all started on another board and another topic, when a suggestion that the reason any material must not sell is usually only because of bad editing. (This was asserted by one of my closest and dearest friends actually) This hit a nerve with James, I believe, because he's always meticulous about his own editing, and started the whole blog about his experience with the publishing side.</p><p> </p><p>James' stuff, by the way, is always excellent IMHOP - but he is interested, as many of us are, in creative endeavors in niche markets - and it is easy to get defensive about the limitations and problems facing wanting to write and create to one's own vision or passion in the game. To Mike and Eric, it can sometimes feel like there's a constant drumbeat of "get with the times and join us are go away." I like C&C, not because I think either 3.5 or 4e or Pathfinder are bad - I played 3.0 for years - and I think all are well-designed games, but with different approaches and foci than my interest. I contribute now and have some adventures published in Crusader. TLG is a very small company, heh, so those of us who do this are getting very little (mostly company swag for me).... </p><p> </p><p>Like Erik, there are things that can rub nerves the wrong way.... for me it's the idea that the only appropriate business model is the one followed by the big players, that niches are dismissible because they aren't playing on the same field as WotC or Paizo. Chris Pramas said Green Ronin's doing fine - I know Steve Chenault feels very good about where TLG and C&C are - despite the enormous blow of the Gygax IP withdrawal a year ago. Are these companies "successful"? Absolutely. If compared with 4e or Pathfinder? Apples and oranges. For TLG, if they garner several dozen new customers in a month and a couple of hundred a year, that's a "Boom" which will multiply profits (and I mean regular consumers who purchase multiple products - not just casual purchase of core rules). If that was the "growth" for Pathfinder, it would be disastrous - hence the different business model approaches.</p><p> </p><p>I imagine part of James's frustrations come from his love of the Wilderlands, which is a niche but with more d20 devotees from Necro's releases, and C&C, which is another niche... he is also, as I said, meticulous and likes to "do it all" on his products... which can make for a frustrating endeavor - not to mention the pilling on people give because AGPs stuff is very simple saddle-stitched with very quality material but very minimalistic in comparison to other co's products. But if you read it, it's some of the best RPG writing around.... the 2007 GenCon "XXXI" was terrific. I do wonder how many who criticize have actually read his stuff...</p><p> </p><p>I actually disagree with James's doom and gloom scenaio, and I know and like the guy enormously. I don't feel that either WotC or Paizo are headed for "doom," but I also doubt that things are as sustainably rosy as is sometimes presented. However, my hopes are that all these games are successful, for all the fans who love and play them. I have no animosity at all towards 4e or any other game.... </p><p> </p><p>When I first came back to gaming, I discovered the ask Gary thread here at ENWORLD - it was the 1st board I joined and his thread is what led me to C&C. At one point, I made a snarky comment about 3.5 I think, and Gary told me "each to his own - play what you like and have fun."</p><p> </p><p>Guys, seriously - James writing a negative blog can't possibly have any impact on sales for WotC or Paizo or anyone else, really excepting his own pr.... if it could the situation would be worse than even he describes. </p><p> </p><p>Can't have it both ways - if the RPG industry is that phenomenally healthy, then there really shouldn't be any fear of one little voice in the wilderness like this.... </p><p> </p><p>Just my thoughts. And I mean it when I say I hope all our games and endeavours are successful....</p><p> </p><p>... by whatever standard we each measure our success! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="seskis281, post: 4867878, member: 41593"] Actually I have no problem with discussion - I just think it devolves into the personal too much - and I mean this on all sides. I appreciate Erik's clarification today, because it explains alot, and everyone can get snarky and too defensive - we're all just human - same thing with James folks... This all started on another board and another topic, when a suggestion that the reason any material must not sell is usually only because of bad editing. (This was asserted by one of my closest and dearest friends actually) This hit a nerve with James, I believe, because he's always meticulous about his own editing, and started the whole blog about his experience with the publishing side. James' stuff, by the way, is always excellent IMHOP - but he is interested, as many of us are, in creative endeavors in niche markets - and it is easy to get defensive about the limitations and problems facing wanting to write and create to one's own vision or passion in the game. To Mike and Eric, it can sometimes feel like there's a constant drumbeat of "get with the times and join us are go away." I like C&C, not because I think either 3.5 or 4e or Pathfinder are bad - I played 3.0 for years - and I think all are well-designed games, but with different approaches and foci than my interest. I contribute now and have some adventures published in Crusader. TLG is a very small company, heh, so those of us who do this are getting very little (mostly company swag for me).... Like Erik, there are things that can rub nerves the wrong way.... for me it's the idea that the only appropriate business model is the one followed by the big players, that niches are dismissible because they aren't playing on the same field as WotC or Paizo. Chris Pramas said Green Ronin's doing fine - I know Steve Chenault feels very good about where TLG and C&C are - despite the enormous blow of the Gygax IP withdrawal a year ago. Are these companies "successful"? Absolutely. If compared with 4e or Pathfinder? Apples and oranges. For TLG, if they garner several dozen new customers in a month and a couple of hundred a year, that's a "Boom" which will multiply profits (and I mean regular consumers who purchase multiple products - not just casual purchase of core rules). If that was the "growth" for Pathfinder, it would be disastrous - hence the different business model approaches. I imagine part of James's frustrations come from his love of the Wilderlands, which is a niche but with more d20 devotees from Necro's releases, and C&C, which is another niche... he is also, as I said, meticulous and likes to "do it all" on his products... which can make for a frustrating endeavor - not to mention the pilling on people give because AGPs stuff is very simple saddle-stitched with very quality material but very minimalistic in comparison to other co's products. But if you read it, it's some of the best RPG writing around.... the 2007 GenCon "XXXI" was terrific. I do wonder how many who criticize have actually read his stuff... I actually disagree with James's doom and gloom scenaio, and I know and like the guy enormously. I don't feel that either WotC or Paizo are headed for "doom," but I also doubt that things are as sustainably rosy as is sometimes presented. However, my hopes are that all these games are successful, for all the fans who love and play them. I have no animosity at all towards 4e or any other game.... When I first came back to gaming, I discovered the ask Gary thread here at ENWORLD - it was the 1st board I joined and his thread is what led me to C&C. At one point, I made a snarky comment about 3.5 I think, and Gary told me "each to his own - play what you like and have fun." Guys, seriously - James writing a negative blog can't possibly have any impact on sales for WotC or Paizo or anyone else, really excepting his own pr.... if it could the situation would be worse than even he describes. Can't have it both ways - if the RPG industry is that phenomenally healthy, then there really shouldn't be any fear of one little voice in the wilderness like this.... Just my thoughts. And I mean it when I say I hope all our games and endeavours are successful.... ... by whatever standard we each measure our success! :cool: [/QUOTE]
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another rpg industry doomsday article (merged: all 3 "Mishler Rant" threads)
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