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Anthropomorphic stats?
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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 788907" data-attributes="member: 3192"><p><strong>Anthropomorphic Animal Review</strong></p><p></p><p>Bugaboo, I completely agree with you. These numbers are WACK!</p><p></p><p>Anyone who compares the anthropomorphic animals from Savage Species with those in the Monster Manual will see many mysterious changes. Sizes change, HD change, ability stats change, and they don't seem to make sense. Maybe these changes are precursors to the new revised edition of the MM, but I hope not. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyways, I'll start off with a little history: Back when 3rd Ed. came out our group loved that monsters could have levels and, of course, all of us took monster classes. This didn't balance well, but we enjoyed it. One player played a black panther who could shapechange as a true lycanthrope (at will, no skill check; lycanthope template based on the Tiger with hybrid form). Now the numbers were waaaaaaaaaay off balance by both HD and CR, but this was 3 years ago and before any ECL system. So, I decided to try and bring her character back down to Earth by my lonesome self.</p><p></p><p>Needless to say, one month and a notebook full of feeble calculations later, I had the creeping suspicion that monster CRs were eyeballed rather than balanced by some logical system. Looking back I think it should have been obvious to me now. Anyone who has tried to determine CRs for new critters knows that balancing a new monster via a point system is still pretty tricky and that there is no 'right' method. Really, just like spell creation, no system is perfect; you just can't cover every imaginable need.</p><p></p><p></p><p>SO, yes: </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Animals have really high stats in the MM with relatively few cool abilities. (This really has helped our Druids in combat.)<br /> <br /> <strong>Anthropormic animals are absolutely necessary for any lycanthropy system to work in the MM.</strong> <br /> <br /> Now, the most buff animals (high str, dex & con) have been vastly decreased in abilities, HD, etc. and some of the moderate ones have been left more powerful. (any leopard could kick a lion's A<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />)<br /> <br /> Virtually no animal is anthromorphed with an ability score adjustment higher than +8, and some seem to have been nerfed completely. (some +16 and +20 adjustments relegated to +8's)<br /> <br /> While these changes may constitute a weakening of an animal's power in hybrid/humaniod form, the changes are not consistent.<br /> <br /> It is still possible with the new SS book to balance the old animal stats into monster levels and ECLs. However, this will be difficult as most actual monsters with such high ability adjustments have many corresponding powers besides.</li> </ul><p></p><p>I'm currently hoping that after the revised MM is released in July an errata will be posted with a more sound look at how animals can be anthropomorphed. As for the mental ability scores, most follow in line with the adjustments from the original stat blocks. Most animals simply have very poor charisma.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 788907, member: 3192"] [b]Anthropomorphic Animal Review[/b] Bugaboo, I completely agree with you. These numbers are WACK! Anyone who compares the anthropomorphic animals from Savage Species with those in the Monster Manual will see many mysterious changes. Sizes change, HD change, ability stats change, and they don't seem to make sense. Maybe these changes are precursors to the new revised edition of the MM, but I hope not. Anyways, I'll start off with a little history: Back when 3rd Ed. came out our group loved that monsters could have levels and, of course, all of us took monster classes. This didn't balance well, but we enjoyed it. One player played a black panther who could shapechange as a true lycanthrope (at will, no skill check; lycanthope template based on the Tiger with hybrid form). Now the numbers were waaaaaaaaaay off balance by both HD and CR, but this was 3 years ago and before any ECL system. So, I decided to try and bring her character back down to Earth by my lonesome self. Needless to say, one month and a notebook full of feeble calculations later, I had the creeping suspicion that monster CRs were eyeballed rather than balanced by some logical system. Looking back I think it should have been obvious to me now. Anyone who has tried to determine CRs for new critters knows that balancing a new monster via a point system is still pretty tricky and that there is no 'right' method. Really, just like spell creation, no system is perfect; you just can't cover every imaginable need. SO, yes: [list]Animals have really high stats in the MM with relatively few cool abilities. (This really has helped our Druids in combat.) [B]Anthropormic animals are absolutely necessary for any lycanthropy system to work in the MM.[/B] Now, the most buff animals (high str, dex & con) have been vastly decreased in abilities, HD, etc. and some of the moderate ones have been left more powerful. (any leopard could kick a lion's A:) :)) Virtually no animal is anthromorphed with an ability score adjustment higher than +8, and some seem to have been nerfed completely. (some +16 and +20 adjustments relegated to +8's) While these changes may constitute a weakening of an animal's power in hybrid/humaniod form, the changes are not consistent. It is still possible with the new SS book to balance the old animal stats into monster levels and ECLs. However, this will be difficult as most actual monsters with such high ability adjustments have many corresponding powers besides. [/list] I'm currently hoping that after the revised MM is released in July an errata will be posted with a more sound look at how animals can be anthropomorphed. As for the mental ability scores, most follow in line with the adjustments from the original stat blocks. Most animals simply have very poor charisma. :( [/QUOTE]
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