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Anyone check out Radiance RPG yet?
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<blockquote data-quote="Option" data-source="post: 6063650" data-attributes="member: 6703770"><p>I totally agree and almost think that skill advancement should be separated out from Ability/Feat advancement. Maybe some of those skill bonus abilities that contribute to the class’ theme (such as Barbarians and Athletics) could be changed to apply some kind of situational bonus to the skill or allow the skill to be used in a unique way?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I really agree with making skills matter. My first table top RPG was the old WEG Star Wars D6 system in which every roll was a skill roll. (Want to be a better fighter? Put more points into the appropriate weapon skill) Skills/Attributes really defined who a character was in that system and I kind of missed that when I started playing DnD. My first impression of DnD was that it seemed like a tactical combat game with a half-hearted skill system tacked on the side.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, I did notice that depending on race/class/theme you choose, you might see the same skill ability available under two ability categories. However, I believe I avoided this with my Goliath Barbarian example. But maybe I have overlooked something?</p><p></p><p>Lvl 0 (Athletics = +15)</p><p>+5 – Race: Powerful Build</p><p>+5 – Race: 18 in Str +2 for race = 20</p><p>+5 – Theme (Hunter): Action Ready</p><p></p><p>Lvl 1 (Athletics = +20)</p><p>+5 – Class: Outdoor Athlete</p><p></p><p>Lvl 2 (Athletics = +29)</p><p>+5 – Race: Athlete</p><p>+4 – Race: Mountaineer</p><p></p><p>Lvl 4 (Athletics = +34)</p><p>+ 5 – Class: Leap</p><p></p><p>Lvl 5 (Athletics = +38)</p><p>+4 – Class: One with Nature</p><p></p><p>Lvl 9 (Athletics = +42)</p><p>+4 – Class: Barbarian King</p><p></p><p>Either way, you are right that even in this example the min/max’d skill plateaus early with several levels before further improvement is possible (and even then it only allows another two upgrades).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a good point. In most situations you only need one character who is good at a given skill to overcome the obstacle.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I like that skill DC equation... nice an straight-forward. On the issue of hirelings however, I am a bit reluctant to use them. Being relatively inexperienced as a DM, I already have my hands full keeping track of all the NPCs in combat while trying to keep up a good pace so I’m reluctant to introduce more (which would require more monsters to balance out the addition of hirelings?... or could I use non-combat hirelings?) </p><p></p><p>-----------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If I am understanding correctly, I think that could work. So the conversion would break down as follows?</p><p></p><p>+1 --> +1d4</p><p>+2 --> +1d4</p><p>+3 --> +1d6</p><p>+4 --> +1d4+1d6</p><p>+5 --> +1d4+1d6</p><p>+6 --> +2d6</p><p>+7 --> +2d6+1d4 </p><p>...</p><p>+17--> +5d6+1d4</p><p></p><p>If that’s right, I think it could work but we’d need to cut the ability skill bonus amounts in half or else character will max out their favored skills in no time. Additionally, DC levels will need to be cut in half as well to account for the greatly reduced PC skill roll results. Finally, it might be a good thing but, lowering the skill bonus amounts would boost the value of attribute bonuses which can quickly become inconsequential in the current system. </p><p></p><p>I think the only downside is that a lot of people are turned off by rolling and adding up “handfuls of dice.” The DnD Next mechanic only rolls two dice (d20 + skill dice) which seems to be acceptable by most of the community that has bothered to comment on it. </p><p></p><p>I came up with the following mechanic which creates 14 tiers of skill level and converts the current +2 bonuses from abilities into “+1 skill level” and the +4 and +5 abilities become “+2 skill levels” The skills levels themselves are as follows.</p><p></p><p>1 = +1 (average = 1)</p><p>2 = +1d3 (average = 2)</p><p>3 = +1d4 (average = 2.5)</p><p>4 = +1d6 (average = 3.5)</p><p>5 = +1d8 (average = 4.5)</p><p>6 = +1d4+1d4 (average = 5)</p><p>7 = +1d6+1d4 (average = 6)</p><p>8 = +1d6+1d6 (average = 7)</p><p>9 = +1d8+1d6 (average = 8)</p><p>...</p><p>14 = +1d12+1d12 (average = 13)</p><p></p><p>Once again, the DC levels would have to be cut in half and the Attribute Modifiers would be worth more as they would still be a fixed number added to the dice results. This does limit the max number of dice to three but the max skill bonus is now 13 (average 2d12) which still gives the d20 roll a LOT of weight considering how many character resources have been used to get this level of skill bonus. </p><p></p><p>In other words, a character would invest a lot of his resources to get seven "2 level bonuses" (+5 bonuses in the current system) to max out a skill and get 2d12 added to his d20. But a +13 may not be enough bonus to justify the cost since it doesn't significantly overshadow the d20. </p><p></p><p>Maybe if I replaced the d20 with 2d10 that would work better since it would introduce more probablilty curve and would make the +13 more valuable since the 2d10 would much more reliably stay in the midrange of results. But, if I did that I'm right back to rolling too many dice and expecting all the players to have access to 4d10.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Option, post: 6063650, member: 6703770"] I totally agree and almost think that skill advancement should be separated out from Ability/Feat advancement. Maybe some of those skill bonus abilities that contribute to the class’ theme (such as Barbarians and Athletics) could be changed to apply some kind of situational bonus to the skill or allow the skill to be used in a unique way? I really agree with making skills matter. My first table top RPG was the old WEG Star Wars D6 system in which every roll was a skill roll. (Want to be a better fighter? Put more points into the appropriate weapon skill) Skills/Attributes really defined who a character was in that system and I kind of missed that when I started playing DnD. My first impression of DnD was that it seemed like a tactical combat game with a half-hearted skill system tacked on the side. Yes, I did notice that depending on race/class/theme you choose, you might see the same skill ability available under two ability categories. However, I believe I avoided this with my Goliath Barbarian example. But maybe I have overlooked something? Lvl 0 (Athletics = +15) +5 – Race: Powerful Build +5 – Race: 18 in Str +2 for race = 20 +5 – Theme (Hunter): Action Ready Lvl 1 (Athletics = +20) +5 – Class: Outdoor Athlete Lvl 2 (Athletics = +29) +5 – Race: Athlete +4 – Race: Mountaineer Lvl 4 (Athletics = +34) + 5 – Class: Leap Lvl 5 (Athletics = +38) +4 – Class: One with Nature Lvl 9 (Athletics = +42) +4 – Class: Barbarian King Either way, you are right that even in this example the min/max’d skill plateaus early with several levels before further improvement is possible (and even then it only allows another two upgrades). That is a good point. In most situations you only need one character who is good at a given skill to overcome the obstacle. I like that skill DC equation... nice an straight-forward. On the issue of hirelings however, I am a bit reluctant to use them. Being relatively inexperienced as a DM, I already have my hands full keeping track of all the NPCs in combat while trying to keep up a good pace so I’m reluctant to introduce more (which would require more monsters to balance out the addition of hirelings?... or could I use non-combat hirelings?) ----------------- If I am understanding correctly, I think that could work. So the conversion would break down as follows? +1 --> +1d4 +2 --> +1d4 +3 --> +1d6 +4 --> +1d4+1d6 +5 --> +1d4+1d6 +6 --> +2d6 +7 --> +2d6+1d4 ... +17--> +5d6+1d4 If that’s right, I think it could work but we’d need to cut the ability skill bonus amounts in half or else character will max out their favored skills in no time. Additionally, DC levels will need to be cut in half as well to account for the greatly reduced PC skill roll results. Finally, it might be a good thing but, lowering the skill bonus amounts would boost the value of attribute bonuses which can quickly become inconsequential in the current system. I think the only downside is that a lot of people are turned off by rolling and adding up “handfuls of dice.” The DnD Next mechanic only rolls two dice (d20 + skill dice) which seems to be acceptable by most of the community that has bothered to comment on it. I came up with the following mechanic which creates 14 tiers of skill level and converts the current +2 bonuses from abilities into “+1 skill level” and the +4 and +5 abilities become “+2 skill levels” The skills levels themselves are as follows. 1 = +1 (average = 1) 2 = +1d3 (average = 2) 3 = +1d4 (average = 2.5) 4 = +1d6 (average = 3.5) 5 = +1d8 (average = 4.5) 6 = +1d4+1d4 (average = 5) 7 = +1d6+1d4 (average = 6) 8 = +1d6+1d6 (average = 7) 9 = +1d8+1d6 (average = 8) ... 14 = +1d12+1d12 (average = 13) Once again, the DC levels would have to be cut in half and the Attribute Modifiers would be worth more as they would still be a fixed number added to the dice results. This does limit the max number of dice to three but the max skill bonus is now 13 (average 2d12) which still gives the d20 roll a LOT of weight considering how many character resources have been used to get this level of skill bonus. In other words, a character would invest a lot of his resources to get seven "2 level bonuses" (+5 bonuses in the current system) to max out a skill and get 2d12 added to his d20. But a +13 may not be enough bonus to justify the cost since it doesn't significantly overshadow the d20. Maybe if I replaced the d20 with 2d10 that would work better since it would introduce more probablilty curve and would make the +13 more valuable since the 2d10 would much more reliably stay in the midrange of results. But, if I did that I'm right back to rolling too many dice and expecting all the players to have access to 4d10. [/QUOTE]
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