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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7522090"><p>Ah, the Parade of Horribles argument. I'm betting that when certain politicians use that rhetorical device you facepalm and wonder how their supporters can fall for that.</p><p></p><p>Question: do you ever drive even slightly over the speed limit, and tell yourself it's ok because it's "just a mile or two". Well, by applying your argument a mile or two might be 3 miles, which might be 4 miles, etc. And because ample research shows that speeding costs lives, aren't you implicitly approving of homicide by speeding even a little? </p><p></p><p>No, of course not. So let's can the silly arguments.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, the distinction between the spell list and the other information you mention is that only the spell lists benefit significantly from being organized electronically, in a way that's impossible on print paper. Sure, being able to look on your computer rather than lug around a book is also utility, but I will happily agree with you that this is <em>insufficient</em> utility to justify breaking copyright law.</p><p></p><p>The fact that some people post that information anyway is not sufficient reason (for me) to say that the spell lists therefore shouldn't exist, because the two activities are not connected. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Wait...exactly <em>why</em> is it morally objectionable to say, "I already purchased this content; I just want to be able to sort it differently"? If anything, I think the morally objectionable part is for the publisher to try to tell us we must buy it again. </p><p></p><p>Extensive case law has established that if you purchase content (or "purchase a license to content", as the lawyers have now arranged things) you are allowed to reconfigure it for your own use. The content companies try to get around that by making us violate the DMCA <em>in order to</em> reconfigure it, but Fair Use remains. The grimoire may be violating copyright law by providing that content online, but the service it provides is a great example of Fair Use for the end user (assuming they bought it in the first place, which I am assuming and you're not.)</p><p></p><p>Anyway, regarding "theft": you have yet to demonstrate that any theft has happened. And, sorry, copyright infringement itself is not "theft", whatever Disney would have us believe. And even if you could demonstrate a negative impact on sales (which you can't) that would just be "damages". It is only theft is the offender has what the victim has lost. So you'd have to prove that the grimoire (which is ad free) is somehow making money that belongs to WotC. You can't. Thus my massive /eyeroll every time you zealously use the word 'theft'.</p><p></p><p>You are reminding me of the attitude of the record companies in the early 2000's, which was "the laws...the laws that we paid good money for...are entirely on our side, so we have no reason to compromise even a little." They nearly destroyed themselves with that approach, and the only reason they are alive (and thriving) today is that they did, eventually, realize that they can't control their content 100%, and that if they try to the inconvenience just turns away customers.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Ooh, I just realized there's another great (and illustrative) parallel between copyright infringement and speeding: sometime speed limits are set not because they are the optimal limit for that area, but so that municipalities can rake in fines from egregious speeder. In other words, the rules are written for the benefit of those who write the rules, not because they are morally right.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7522090"] Ah, the Parade of Horribles argument. I'm betting that when certain politicians use that rhetorical device you facepalm and wonder how their supporters can fall for that. Question: do you ever drive even slightly over the speed limit, and tell yourself it's ok because it's "just a mile or two". Well, by applying your argument a mile or two might be 3 miles, which might be 4 miles, etc. And because ample research shows that speeding costs lives, aren't you implicitly approving of homicide by speeding even a little? No, of course not. So let's can the silly arguments. Furthermore, the distinction between the spell list and the other information you mention is that only the spell lists benefit significantly from being organized electronically, in a way that's impossible on print paper. Sure, being able to look on your computer rather than lug around a book is also utility, but I will happily agree with you that this is [I]insufficient[/I] utility to justify breaking copyright law. The fact that some people post that information anyway is not sufficient reason (for me) to say that the spell lists therefore shouldn't exist, because the two activities are not connected. Wait...exactly [I]why[/I] is it morally objectionable to say, "I already purchased this content; I just want to be able to sort it differently"? If anything, I think the morally objectionable part is for the publisher to try to tell us we must buy it again. Extensive case law has established that if you purchase content (or "purchase a license to content", as the lawyers have now arranged things) you are allowed to reconfigure it for your own use. The content companies try to get around that by making us violate the DMCA [I]in order to[/I] reconfigure it, but Fair Use remains. The grimoire may be violating copyright law by providing that content online, but the service it provides is a great example of Fair Use for the end user (assuming they bought it in the first place, which I am assuming and you're not.) Anyway, regarding "theft": you have yet to demonstrate that any theft has happened. And, sorry, copyright infringement itself is not "theft", whatever Disney would have us believe. And even if you could demonstrate a negative impact on sales (which you can't) that would just be "damages". It is only theft is the offender has what the victim has lost. So you'd have to prove that the grimoire (which is ad free) is somehow making money that belongs to WotC. You can't. Thus my massive /eyeroll every time you zealously use the word 'theft'. You are reminding me of the attitude of the record companies in the early 2000's, which was "the laws...the laws that we paid good money for...are entirely on our side, so we have no reason to compromise even a little." They nearly destroyed themselves with that approach, and the only reason they are alive (and thriving) today is that they did, eventually, realize that they can't control their content 100%, and that if they try to the inconvenience just turns away customers. EDIT: Ooh, I just realized there's another great (and illustrative) parallel between copyright infringement and speeding: sometime speed limits are set not because they are the optimal limit for that area, but so that municipalities can rake in fines from egregious speeder. In other words, the rules are written for the benefit of those who write the rules, not because they are morally right. [/QUOTE]
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