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Anyone else tired of the miserly begrudging Rogue design of 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Salthorae" data-source="post: 7382541" data-attributes="member: 1095"><p>Assassinate works easily... you have advantage on anyone who hasn't gone in the initiative order yet, so you're guaranteed Sneak Attack against something unless you go after all enemies. The auto crit part is separate from that, and getting surprise isn't that hard, they just need to not be aware of you. Some in the combat maybe surprised while others aren't. </p><p></p><p>If you get both and attack with two short swords then you're doing 8-10d6+Dex on that first round (because all hits are Crits with assassinate not just the first & depending on level) , then you move and hide or just move and start attacking the things the fighter is hitting so you still get sneak attack. The higher level and more sneak attack that get doubled the more deadly. </p><p></p><p>Rogue isn't supposed to be a front line fighter. That is why there is a Fighter. They are a supplement to the fighter in combat, but Fighters can't do hardly anything out of combat, they are a one trick pony really. And Fighters get to take all that damage that the Rogue just evades or dodges, because you can sneak attack at range! Or attack, disengage and move out of melee range, then move back in next round. </p><p></p><p>Take alertness or mobility, those are both going to help you in combat get sneak attacks. Alertness increases your chances to Assassinate. Mobility means you don't waste your Bonus Action disengaging and can use it to attack, move and hide, then attack from hiding for more sneak attack. </p><p></p><p>It is much easier in 5e to get sneak attack dice on most all attacks (even against Constructs and Undead now!) than any previous edition. Yes a Rogue isn't dealing the fighter damage every round, they're not a fighter. </p><p></p><p>If you're disappointed by the Rogue' damage output and the other gems that they offer don't appeal to you, then don't play a Rogue, play a melee class instead. But a complaint about a rogues consistent damage output is just wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Make up your own fighter "thug" subclass that gives some sneak attack damage with light/finesse weapons so you can have the fighter attacks but get some sneak attack too and see if DMs will allow it. I probably would. </p><p></p><p>I love Rogues and have played 3 or 4 different subclasses and am DM'ing a party where 3 of the character are either assassins or have Rogue levels. They shine where they shine and they do a decent job in combat, but they should never be mistaken for front line fighters in terms of damage output or soaked.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Salthorae, post: 7382541, member: 1095"] Assassinate works easily... you have advantage on anyone who hasn't gone in the initiative order yet, so you're guaranteed Sneak Attack against something unless you go after all enemies. The auto crit part is separate from that, and getting surprise isn't that hard, they just need to not be aware of you. Some in the combat maybe surprised while others aren't. If you get both and attack with two short swords then you're doing 8-10d6+Dex on that first round (because all hits are Crits with assassinate not just the first & depending on level) , then you move and hide or just move and start attacking the things the fighter is hitting so you still get sneak attack. The higher level and more sneak attack that get doubled the more deadly. Rogue isn't supposed to be a front line fighter. That is why there is a Fighter. They are a supplement to the fighter in combat, but Fighters can't do hardly anything out of combat, they are a one trick pony really. And Fighters get to take all that damage that the Rogue just evades or dodges, because you can sneak attack at range! Or attack, disengage and move out of melee range, then move back in next round. Take alertness or mobility, those are both going to help you in combat get sneak attacks. Alertness increases your chances to Assassinate. Mobility means you don't waste your Bonus Action disengaging and can use it to attack, move and hide, then attack from hiding for more sneak attack. It is much easier in 5e to get sneak attack dice on most all attacks (even against Constructs and Undead now!) than any previous edition. Yes a Rogue isn't dealing the fighter damage every round, they're not a fighter. If you're disappointed by the Rogue' damage output and the other gems that they offer don't appeal to you, then don't play a Rogue, play a melee class instead. But a complaint about a rogues consistent damage output is just wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Make up your own fighter "thug" subclass that gives some sneak attack damage with light/finesse weapons so you can have the fighter attacks but get some sneak attack too and see if DMs will allow it. I probably would. I love Rogues and have played 3 or 4 different subclasses and am DM'ing a party where 3 of the character are either assassins or have Rogue levels. They shine where they shine and they do a decent job in combat, but they should never be mistaken for front line fighters in terms of damage output or soaked. [/QUOTE]
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Anyone else tired of the miserly begrudging Rogue design of 5E?
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