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Anyone else tired of the miserly begrudging Rogue design of 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7389069" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We've never had a problem with it. <-- that statement is pretty much the reply to everything below, just FYI. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No Feats in my game (or MC), and an adventure day is however many combats they get into. Maybe it's 8, maybe it's 0, maybe it's 15. And as long as the Rogue can hold his own for one or two rounds, that's all he needs. The Fighter, Barbarian, War Cleric or Ranger can step in and help/save the Rogue. But if you see a Rogue as a "stealthy fighter", well...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>...and one reason (a major one, actually) why we don't use Feats.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, and? A Sorcerer geard to the DPR side of things can do a lot of damage. It's one of their possibilities. A Rogue is not a Sorcerer...so why do you think a Rogue should be able to do the same thing? If you want to do lots of damage, play a Sorcerer or twinked-out-Feat-Fighter. If you want a character who is good a detecting, infiltrating and avoiding combat, then you play a Rogue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Er...why does a class that focuses on "avoiding" even need a big 'burst/nova' capability? If the enemy doesn't even know you are there... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hold the phone! ... Just what does "correct play" mean? That's like asking someone their favorite flavour of ice cream, and when they say Strawberry you yell out "INCORRECT!". <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Holy molly! I think we agree on something! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> I looked at the Assassin stuff too to see if they 'fixed' it from 3.5e. Nope. It, at least in our playing, virtually *is* impossible to get a situation where you can use it, let alone have any chance of actually pull it off. It's like they said "An assassin can kill in one blow! ... Well, at least paraplegic beavers. And maybe the occasional drunk goblin. I mean, it's not like an assassin is supposed to infiltrate a castle, find the general of the army, and then kill him. LOL! That would be silly!" :rolleseyes:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>...and we're back to disagreeing. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> In my opinion, a Rogue is MOST USEFUL <em>outside of combat</em>. That's where they shine. That's their "thing". A Rogue should not shine in combat any more than any other non-fighter type. </p><p></p><p>A Rogue is best when striking from the shadows. Backstab, missile weapon, etc. Setting traps and luering his opponent into them, and then pouncing. And a companion. It can't be stated enough just how damn useful it is to have another Rogue "partner in crime"! You want sneak attack damage all the time? Get another Rogue partner. Hell, get two! I ran one game where there were THREE Rogues in the group. If/when they ganged up on one guy it was brutal! But a Rogue all by his lonesome, standing toe to toe with an ogre, looking up at him, the Rogue shouldn't be thinking "How can I do the most damage to end this fight quickly?"...he should be thinking "Crap-dogs-on-a-stick! How did I end up here? Mother, you were right; I should have stayed in fighter school...".</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7389069, member: 45197"] Hiya! We've never had a problem with it. <-- that statement is pretty much the reply to everything below, just FYI. :) No Feats in my game (or MC), and an adventure day is however many combats they get into. Maybe it's 8, maybe it's 0, maybe it's 15. And as long as the Rogue can hold his own for one or two rounds, that's all he needs. The Fighter, Barbarian, War Cleric or Ranger can step in and help/save the Rogue. But if you see a Rogue as a "stealthy fighter", well... ...and one reason (a major one, actually) why we don't use Feats. Ok, and? A Sorcerer geard to the DPR side of things can do a lot of damage. It's one of their possibilities. A Rogue is not a Sorcerer...so why do you think a Rogue should be able to do the same thing? If you want to do lots of damage, play a Sorcerer or twinked-out-Feat-Fighter. If you want a character who is good a detecting, infiltrating and avoiding combat, then you play a Rogue. Er...why does a class that focuses on "avoiding" even need a big 'burst/nova' capability? If the enemy doesn't even know you are there... Hold the phone! ... Just what does "correct play" mean? That's like asking someone their favorite flavour of ice cream, and when they say Strawberry you yell out "INCORRECT!". ;) Holy molly! I think we agree on something! :) I looked at the Assassin stuff too to see if they 'fixed' it from 3.5e. Nope. It, at least in our playing, virtually *is* impossible to get a situation where you can use it, let alone have any chance of actually pull it off. It's like they said "An assassin can kill in one blow! ... Well, at least paraplegic beavers. And maybe the occasional drunk goblin. I mean, it's not like an assassin is supposed to infiltrate a castle, find the general of the army, and then kill him. LOL! That would be silly!" :rolleseyes: ...and we're back to disagreeing. :) In my opinion, a Rogue is MOST USEFUL [I]outside of combat[/I]. That's where they shine. That's their "thing". A Rogue should not shine in combat any more than any other non-fighter type. A Rogue is best when striking from the shadows. Backstab, missile weapon, etc. Setting traps and luering his opponent into them, and then pouncing. And a companion. It can't be stated enough just how damn useful it is to have another Rogue "partner in crime"! You want sneak attack damage all the time? Get another Rogue partner. Hell, get two! I ran one game where there were THREE Rogues in the group. If/when they ganged up on one guy it was brutal! But a Rogue all by his lonesome, standing toe to toe with an ogre, looking up at him, the Rogue shouldn't be thinking "How can I do the most damage to end this fight quickly?"...he should be thinking "Crap-dogs-on-a-stick! How did I end up here? Mother, you were right; I should have stayed in fighter school...". ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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Anyone else tired of the miserly begrudging Rogue design of 5E?
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