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Archer Optimization Math...
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<blockquote data-quote="felwred" data-source="post: 6828032" data-attributes="member: 6805714"><p>Before anyone critiques this as being math-geek heavy - that's the audience</p><p>I am hoping reviews this to correct my maths and show me what I am missing.</p><p></p><p>I have a level 15 AL character that is focused on being an archer.</p><p>In a recent convention, I sat with a player who built a similar</p><p>concept but with assassin levels. Using the same weapon, he seemed</p><p>to dramatically out-damage my character. The math to it starts</p><p>getting complicated due to the number of variables as to how often this would</p><p>be true (are there surprise rounds, how many rounds of combat between short rests,</p><p>average AC of opponents, etc.). I wanted to get some thoughts about if there </p><p>was a much better damage dealing version of the archer concept than what I built.</p><p></p><p>He's level 11 fighter, level 1 cleric, level 3 ranger.</p><p>Feats: Sharpshooter, crossbow expert</p><p>Fighter/Ranger styles: Archer (+2 to hit)/Defense (+1 to AC)</p><p>+2 Longbow (PoTA)</p><p>Fighter - Battle Master with maneuvers meant to focus on battlefield control (D10)'s</p><p>Ranger - Horde Breaker to take extra attack against adjacent foes to target.</p><p></p><p>Right now, when using sharp-shooter he is +9 to hit for 17+D8(weapon)+D6(hunter's</p><p>mark)+(often) D10 for maneuver for 3 shots per turn. Average damage of 29 per hit</p><p>when using a maneuver, 24 when not.</p><p>If you assume 50% of the time, horde breaker can be used (pretty normal) - that</p><p>means he averages 3.5 attacks for 1.75 hits per round for 46.4 average damage per</p><p>round (assuming maneuvers used half the time).</p><p></p><p>It seems like the better DPS build with a bow would have been a fighter/assassin/ranger</p><p>build. If you went fighter 5 (2 attacks), ranger 3, assassin 7 assuming the same feats,</p><p>stats and equipment, it would be +9 to hit for 17+d8 (weapon)+d6(hunter's mark)+</p><p>4d6 (sneak 1/round per opponent)+D8 maneuver. Average damage for first attack on primary opponent is 38, then 35 on secondary opponent (via horde breaker) (all assuming sneak is easy</p><p>to set up), then 28 for second attack. If you assume the same hit rates and horde breaker utilization rates, that means an average of (first number is hit percentage) (.5*38)+(.25*35)(horde breaker half</p><p>the time)+(.5*28)= 41.75 damage.</p><p></p><p>The assassin seems to come in at lower damage steady state but would hit more on</p><p>rounds where he went first due to advantage. Those rounds, he likely hits 75% of the</p><p>time increasing damage to around 54 for the first round.</p><p></p><p>Anyone have thoughts on how these compare? If the player had gone with champion,</p><p>that first round of assassin damage would be huge (if he had surprise) but that doesn't appear to be the case.</p><p></p><p>Thanks!</p><p></p><p>Fred</p><p>case.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="felwred, post: 6828032, member: 6805714"] Before anyone critiques this as being math-geek heavy - that's the audience I am hoping reviews this to correct my maths and show me what I am missing. I have a level 15 AL character that is focused on being an archer. In a recent convention, I sat with a player who built a similar concept but with assassin levels. Using the same weapon, he seemed to dramatically out-damage my character. The math to it starts getting complicated due to the number of variables as to how often this would be true (are there surprise rounds, how many rounds of combat between short rests, average AC of opponents, etc.). I wanted to get some thoughts about if there was a much better damage dealing version of the archer concept than what I built. He's level 11 fighter, level 1 cleric, level 3 ranger. Feats: Sharpshooter, crossbow expert Fighter/Ranger styles: Archer (+2 to hit)/Defense (+1 to AC) +2 Longbow (PoTA) Fighter - Battle Master with maneuvers meant to focus on battlefield control (D10)'s Ranger - Horde Breaker to take extra attack against adjacent foes to target. Right now, when using sharp-shooter he is +9 to hit for 17+D8(weapon)+D6(hunter's mark)+(often) D10 for maneuver for 3 shots per turn. Average damage of 29 per hit when using a maneuver, 24 when not. If you assume 50% of the time, horde breaker can be used (pretty normal) - that means he averages 3.5 attacks for 1.75 hits per round for 46.4 average damage per round (assuming maneuvers used half the time). It seems like the better DPS build with a bow would have been a fighter/assassin/ranger build. If you went fighter 5 (2 attacks), ranger 3, assassin 7 assuming the same feats, stats and equipment, it would be +9 to hit for 17+d8 (weapon)+d6(hunter's mark)+ 4d6 (sneak 1/round per opponent)+D8 maneuver. Average damage for first attack on primary opponent is 38, then 35 on secondary opponent (via horde breaker) (all assuming sneak is easy to set up), then 28 for second attack. If you assume the same hit rates and horde breaker utilization rates, that means an average of (first number is hit percentage) (.5*38)+(.25*35)(horde breaker half the time)+(.5*28)= 41.75 damage. The assassin seems to come in at lower damage steady state but would hit more on rounds where he went first due to advantage. Those rounds, he likely hits 75% of the time increasing damage to around 54 for the first round. Anyone have thoughts on how these compare? If the player had gone with champion, that first round of assassin damage would be huge (if he had surprise) but that doesn't appear to be the case. Thanks! Fred case. [/QUOTE]
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