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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Are Bard Hymns Overpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9076814" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>I'm going to break this down into 2 parts. 1 about conceptually and the other about power.</p><p></p><p>Conceptually for me hymns reinforce the bard as performer, which for me is the #1 most important thing about the bard. Yes they dabble and thus jack of all trades conception as well, but they are performers first. Maybe your conception of bard is different but that's mine or you view the dabbling as more important than the performing. But for me the hymns reinforce the Bard as performer conception.</p><p></p><p>On power - the only truly game changing ones are the ones that effect the whole party and even then they are no more game changing than a Paladins Aura, hypnotic pattern, a sorcerers twinned polymorph, etc. In fact, there's many times where there are a number of spells on the bard list i'd much rather cast than use the hymns. </p><p></p><p>A few scenarios - </p><p>Mostly melee enemies start 60+ ft away from the party. Use Plant Growth and whittle them down with ranged attacks as you fall back each turn. The most a 30ft move speed creature can travel in the plantgrowth a turn is 15ft when dashing. It will take them about 4 turns to get through, in which case the party can also have increased the distance between them to 120 ft. (I guess technically you can use plant growth and a hymn, but in this scenario that would be pointless).</p><p></p><p>Any encounter where there is 1 enemy with some harmful save based effects. Tasha's Hideous Laughter (excluding enemies having legendary resistance). It's actually better to disable a foe with dangerous aoe effects than it is to simply boost the parties saves.</p><p></p><p>Obviously there are scenarios where I would use the hymns over a spell, but optimal play should have you using a good mixture of both.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, most of the rest of the post comes across as trying to magnify every little thing into a mountain of an issue when it isn't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9076814, member: 6795602"] I'm going to break this down into 2 parts. 1 about conceptually and the other about power. Conceptually for me hymns reinforce the bard as performer, which for me is the #1 most important thing about the bard. Yes they dabble and thus jack of all trades conception as well, but they are performers first. Maybe your conception of bard is different but that's mine or you view the dabbling as more important than the performing. But for me the hymns reinforce the Bard as performer conception. On power - the only truly game changing ones are the ones that effect the whole party and even then they are no more game changing than a Paladins Aura, hypnotic pattern, a sorcerers twinned polymorph, etc. In fact, there's many times where there are a number of spells on the bard list i'd much rather cast than use the hymns. A few scenarios - Mostly melee enemies start 60+ ft away from the party. Use Plant Growth and whittle them down with ranged attacks as you fall back each turn. The most a 30ft move speed creature can travel in the plantgrowth a turn is 15ft when dashing. It will take them about 4 turns to get through, in which case the party can also have increased the distance between them to 120 ft. (I guess technically you can use plant growth and a hymn, but in this scenario that would be pointless). Any encounter where there is 1 enemy with some harmful save based effects. Tasha's Hideous Laughter (excluding enemies having legendary resistance). It's actually better to disable a foe with dangerous aoe effects than it is to simply boost the parties saves. Obviously there are scenarios where I would use the hymns over a spell, but optimal play should have you using a good mixture of both. Honestly, most of the rest of the post comes across as trying to magnify every little thing into a mountain of an issue when it isn't. [/QUOTE]
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Are Bard Hymns Overpowered?
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