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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Are Bard Hymns Overpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="steels12" data-source="post: 9077605" data-attributes="member: 7034129"><p>While the focus right now is strongly on the "+CHA amount of players effected" I do think its counterpart level 4 choice: "Battle hymns no longer require concentration" is insanely strong as well. Firstly because it's a level 4 ability, but also because not only does it allow the bard to now concentrate on a spell (of which bards have some of the strongest concentration spells in the entire game), but also we should remember that bards are not wizards, they don't have a tiny pool of health. Hell, my party bard is competing with both our fighter and barbarian for most health in the party. Typically, there are three main ways to get rid of concentration: hitting a caster out of it (making them fail their concentration save), dispelling the ability, or beating them to unconsciousness. There are other ways, of course, but these are kind of the three primary ways. With this level 4 ability, the first way is out, because they don't require concentration anyway. The second way is ALWAYS out, because Hymns are not spells or spell effects. So by taking this option, generally if a bard become annoying with hymns your best option is just hyper-aggro them. This can be VERY unrealistic to do in battle, gets annoying because it almost turns the bard into a tank sometimes, and as mentioned before, Bard are no slouches in the health department so that can be a big investment for the DM</p><p></p><p>That being said, sticking with the "+CHA amount of players effected" we also have to keep in mind that this is a level 4 choice of 3 options and we shouldn't nerf this ability to the degree that it becomes useless. Most non-minstrel bards are probably only gonna have 4-5 bardic inspirations, so making it more expensive is hard to do effectively without changing a lot of other things in how the class functions</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steels12, post: 9077605, member: 7034129"] While the focus right now is strongly on the "+CHA amount of players effected" I do think its counterpart level 4 choice: "Battle hymns no longer require concentration" is insanely strong as well. Firstly because it's a level 4 ability, but also because not only does it allow the bard to now concentrate on a spell (of which bards have some of the strongest concentration spells in the entire game), but also we should remember that bards are not wizards, they don't have a tiny pool of health. Hell, my party bard is competing with both our fighter and barbarian for most health in the party. Typically, there are three main ways to get rid of concentration: hitting a caster out of it (making them fail their concentration save), dispelling the ability, or beating them to unconsciousness. There are other ways, of course, but these are kind of the three primary ways. With this level 4 ability, the first way is out, because they don't require concentration anyway. The second way is ALWAYS out, because Hymns are not spells or spell effects. So by taking this option, generally if a bard become annoying with hymns your best option is just hyper-aggro them. This can be VERY unrealistic to do in battle, gets annoying because it almost turns the bard into a tank sometimes, and as mentioned before, Bard are no slouches in the health department so that can be a big investment for the DM That being said, sticking with the "+CHA amount of players effected" we also have to keep in mind that this is a level 4 choice of 3 options and we shouldn't nerf this ability to the degree that it becomes useless. Most non-minstrel bards are probably only gonna have 4-5 bardic inspirations, so making it more expensive is hard to do effectively without changing a lot of other things in how the class functions [/QUOTE]
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Are Bard Hymns Overpowered?
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