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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5880204" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>First I'm going to say that the best weapon vs armour rules I know are those used in Rolemaster (although I prefer MERP which is basically Rolemaster Lite). A separate table for each weapon category vs each armour category.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Good armour absorbs so much damage that most blows directly impacting it are rendered ineffective. The answer to this was going round the armour and aiming at the weak points. Making someone harder to hit is therefore a better model.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Your argument flies in the face of history. The Katana was a superb weapon as was the scimitar, their long edges and slashing strokes destroying lightly armoured foes. But both would be <em>terrible</em> against plate armour because they need to actually cut through more steel to get the edge in. If you want to penetrate armour use as narrow a cross section as possible.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Daggers weren't effective against plate. They were just more effective than swords. Wrestle the plate armoured guy into position and then put the dagger through the eyeslits. This isn't <em>good</em> tactics.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>A sword isn't going to go through an inch of steel suitable for armour unless something <em>weird</em> is going on.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>And there's a reason that gothic plate is so renowned. The best way for the Minotaur to fight someone in decent quality plate armour would probably picking him up and shaking him until his brains rattled around in his head. Or passing the shock through the armour with a big club.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You could <em>swim</em> in full plate armour. You can cartwheel. Good rennaisance-era plate armour weighs only about 20kg or a bit under 50lb - and is as well distributed as it is physically possible to be. Sure you're not going to be lockpicking with gauntlets. By comparison, British Infantry in the Falklands were carrying up to 120lb and some idiot gave the Rangers at Granada an average pack weight of 167lb. (Both those were far too heavy of course).</p><p> </p><p>One of the factors armour was designed with was weight. Lighter armour helped. But most people didn't wear plate armour for two reasons. 1: It was hideously expensive. 2: They had no need to.</p><p> </p><p>And skill rolls. Sure, you don't pick locks wearing gauntlets. But 50lbs, well distributed, is getting to the limits of what a fit person can continually wear without it impeding them. That's why plate armour was the weight it was.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I'm thinking of something like a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive_squash_head" target="_blank">HESH</a> round as the only possibility. Using the whole of the armour to rattle the occupant. But that's an edge case and I doubt applicable.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You seem to think that the English went in for lots of plate armour. Most people wearing full plate were cavalry - plate was expensive and if you could afford it you could afford a hrose. And if we look at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn" target="_blank">Bannockburn</a>, there were only 700 English cavalry. Sure there were more knights at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Falkirk_(1298)" target="_blank">Falkirk</a> - but the Scots had an answer to that. Pikemen. The Claymore simply doesn't resemble other anti- plate armour weapons - but does weapons that were great against light to medium armour and could be turned against plate at a pinch. An actual anti-plate weapon would be a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bec_de_corbin" target="_blank">Bec_de_corbin</a> - note the hammer head and the narrow spikes for piercing armour. Completely the opposite take to the long edges that mangle lightly protected flesh.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5880204, member: 87792"] First I'm going to say that the best weapon vs armour rules I know are those used in Rolemaster (although I prefer MERP which is basically Rolemaster Lite). A separate table for each weapon category vs each armour category. Good armour absorbs so much damage that most blows directly impacting it are rendered ineffective. The answer to this was going round the armour and aiming at the weak points. Making someone harder to hit is therefore a better model. Your argument flies in the face of history. The Katana was a superb weapon as was the scimitar, their long edges and slashing strokes destroying lightly armoured foes. But both would be [I]terrible[/I] against plate armour because they need to actually cut through more steel to get the edge in. If you want to penetrate armour use as narrow a cross section as possible. Daggers weren't effective against plate. They were just more effective than swords. Wrestle the plate armoured guy into position and then put the dagger through the eyeslits. This isn't [I]good[/I] tactics. A sword isn't going to go through an inch of steel suitable for armour unless something [I]weird[/I] is going on. This. And there's a reason that gothic plate is so renowned. The best way for the Minotaur to fight someone in decent quality plate armour would probably picking him up and shaking him until his brains rattled around in his head. Or passing the shock through the armour with a big club. You could [I]swim[/I] in full plate armour. You can cartwheel. Good rennaisance-era plate armour weighs only about 20kg or a bit under 50lb - and is as well distributed as it is physically possible to be. Sure you're not going to be lockpicking with gauntlets. By comparison, British Infantry in the Falklands were carrying up to 120lb and some idiot gave the Rangers at Granada an average pack weight of 167lb. (Both those were far too heavy of course). One of the factors armour was designed with was weight. Lighter armour helped. But most people didn't wear plate armour for two reasons. 1: It was hideously expensive. 2: They had no need to. And skill rolls. Sure, you don't pick locks wearing gauntlets. But 50lbs, well distributed, is getting to the limits of what a fit person can continually wear without it impeding them. That's why plate armour was the weight it was. I'm thinking of something like a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive_squash_head]HESH[/url] round as the only possibility. Using the whole of the armour to rattle the occupant. But that's an edge case and I doubt applicable. You seem to think that the English went in for lots of plate armour. Most people wearing full plate were cavalry - plate was expensive and if you could afford it you could afford a hrose. And if we look at [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn]Bannockburn[/url], there were only 700 English cavalry. Sure there were more knights at [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Falkirk_(1298)]Falkirk[/url] - but the Scots had an answer to that. Pikemen. The Claymore simply doesn't resemble other anti- plate armour weapons - but does weapons that were great against light to medium armour and could be turned against plate at a pinch. An actual anti-plate weapon would be a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bec_de_corbin"]Bec_de_corbin[/URL] - note the hammer head and the narrow spikes for piercing armour. Completely the opposite take to the long edges that mangle lightly protected flesh. [/QUOTE]
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