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<blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6117763" data-attributes="member: 6674889"><p>Ya but my ranger and has a good dex, and even with disadvantage to sneak, he still has a way better chance (since he's trained in it as well), and it's also much easier and faster to remove scale armor than plate. Let's face it, the ranger will have a much better go at adventuring, which is why I love playing them so much as well, I just think it's a fool's cambit to spend so much money on plate when not using plate and using a shield is so much better + cheaper. </p><p></p><p>Now, with a 14 dex and 5k to buy mirthal chain, my ranger will have 19 AC and can dual wield, has no disadvantage or speed penalty, whereas a fighter in mundane plate, with a shield as well, will have 20 AC, -5 speed, and can't shoot a bow because his dex isn't that good most likely (in the example you cited). Maybe his cha or wis is better, who knows, but we're talking about core combat effectiveness here. How is that balanced? I know, it's weird me arguing for balance, I just don't like the short thrift that plate armor is getting yet again. I think the easy fix is to make plate = 1000gp with ac 18, field plate is 2500 gp with ac 18 but max dex 1, and maybe full plate is ac 19 with max dex 1. Still keep the disadvantage, maybe, but I want a fighter with plate and a two handed sword to be a viable alternative to the S&B combo, which currently it isn't IMO. Can we get some math on that? I remember in 4e is was almost always better to max damage instead of defenses, because the earlier you kill your enemies the less damage they can do to you (best defense is a good offense). I just want in this edition the best defense is the best defense, and your offense is mitigated somewhat but you should be able to get your cake (best AC) and eat it too (use a two handed sword).</p><p></p><p>If scale + shield was as good as plate for 58gp, why was plate ever invented? What kind of economics does this game have? I appreciate the economies of scale (pardon the pun), for producing scale vs plate, I just think the max dex should still exist in heavy armors too, removing the benefits of min-maxing. Or maybe not.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gorgoroth, post: 6117763, member: 6674889"] Ya but my ranger and has a good dex, and even with disadvantage to sneak, he still has a way better chance (since he's trained in it as well), and it's also much easier and faster to remove scale armor than plate. Let's face it, the ranger will have a much better go at adventuring, which is why I love playing them so much as well, I just think it's a fool's cambit to spend so much money on plate when not using plate and using a shield is so much better + cheaper. Now, with a 14 dex and 5k to buy mirthal chain, my ranger will have 19 AC and can dual wield, has no disadvantage or speed penalty, whereas a fighter in mundane plate, with a shield as well, will have 20 AC, -5 speed, and can't shoot a bow because his dex isn't that good most likely (in the example you cited). Maybe his cha or wis is better, who knows, but we're talking about core combat effectiveness here. How is that balanced? I know, it's weird me arguing for balance, I just don't like the short thrift that plate armor is getting yet again. I think the easy fix is to make plate = 1000gp with ac 18, field plate is 2500 gp with ac 18 but max dex 1, and maybe full plate is ac 19 with max dex 1. Still keep the disadvantage, maybe, but I want a fighter with plate and a two handed sword to be a viable alternative to the S&B combo, which currently it isn't IMO. Can we get some math on that? I remember in 4e is was almost always better to max damage instead of defenses, because the earlier you kill your enemies the less damage they can do to you (best defense is a good offense). I just want in this edition the best defense is the best defense, and your offense is mitigated somewhat but you should be able to get your cake (best AC) and eat it too (use a two handed sword). If scale + shield was as good as plate for 58gp, why was plate ever invented? What kind of economics does this game have? I appreciate the economies of scale (pardon the pun), for producing scale vs plate, I just think the max dex should still exist in heavy armors too, removing the benefits of min-maxing. Or maybe not. [/QUOTE]
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