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Bad GM rulings? How would you rule?
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<blockquote data-quote="azhrei_fje" data-source="post: 4068633" data-attributes="member: 12966"><p>Wow, those replies were quick. Thank you.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I suppose that's the case. Further, telling a player that a dangerous encounter is coming up -- and hinting at it in-game -- isn't likely to be taken too seriously the first time. But when you get to the level of spells that are save-or-die (mostly 6th and 7th level divine spells, in my case), one misstep results in a dead PC.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the answers...</p><p></p><p>It sounds like the GM can rule that the blade barrier is inside a square instead of along the edge and be considered reasonable. Cool, I got one right. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Some people said that reaching through should still provide a Reflex save. I was thinking that the blades are constantly spinning around, like a fan blade, so putting your hand in shouldn't get a Reflex save. Just like putting your hand on a hot stove wouldn't get a Reflex save -- it's not a reflexive action to pull your hand out. You purposefully put it in there, for heaven's sake! But I'll make a note to allow a Reflex save in the future.</p><p></p><p>Q 1C about "either side of the barrier" seems to be an interesting one. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> I hadn't thought about moving into an opponent's square would force you prone. I noticed no one made any mention of the size difference (Large vs. Medium). An argument could be made -- I think -- that a STR check or something similar might allow the Large creature to push the Medium one aside, but then that sounds like a bull rush. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> So I'll make a note that you can choose the side you exit on, but if you choose an opponent's square, you fall prone and provoke an attack of opportunity in doing so.</p><p></p><p>Requiring a Listen check DC 20 to pinpoint sounds like a common ruling, so I'll go with that in the future. Sounds like I shouldn't have allowed the player to convince me otherwise. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I didn't think <em>wall of force</em> or similar spells would block sound. One of the BBEG's other prepared spells was Otiluke's resilient sphere and it's also "Evocation [Force]" and specifically says nothing can pass through the sphere, in or out. I have to assume that includes light and sound, too. That's backed up by the use of "shimmering" in the first sentence. The <em>wall of force</em> doesn't say that, so I figured it was supposed to work differently...</p><p></p><p>I didn't really think <em>control winds</em> should be able to contain the acid fog and move it at the same time. (And I didn't push it; I just let it disperse.) I just figured that if the winds could be controlled by magic, couldn't they be placed such that the fog didn't disperse but was contained instead?</p><p></p><p>And I know the "combat mode" question was a tough one. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> The BBEG had disappeared and I had continued combat for another 3 rounds before asking if they wanted to break out of combat. In the round in which the BBEG disappeared, she dropped 30 feet and saw the trussed up creature. While the party did other stuff, she finished moving to place herself and dismissed the spell. Then one round each for the two creatures there, both unconscious. This is where we left it.</p><p></p><p>On her next rounds, she will step into the "D. Stone" and then into her chamber to collect her "things". I'm playing that for her to enter the stone that easily is due to her constant exposure to it as mentioned in BotB or the module FAQ. Notice she's not in a huge hurry. She still has 36 hit points and quite a few spells left. She'll find her stuff gone, then step into the stone again and start down to the first floor of the tower. Or she may heal up and try attacking from inside the stone. I haven't decided on that last part.</p><p></p><p>You can see that by the time I took the party out of combat, the attacks on their two companions had already happened. One player was upset because there was no noise. Huh?! With the blade barrier going, there's going to be some noise where the combat took place, and besides ... how much noise does it make to coup de grace an unconscious creature with a knife or dagger??</p><p></p><p>Thanks all. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Good stuff. I'll chew on this a little more and then start writing notes in the margin of the SRD for these spells. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="azhrei_fje, post: 4068633, member: 12966"] Wow, those replies were quick. Thank you. I suppose that's the case. Further, telling a player that a dangerous encounter is coming up -- and hinting at it in-game -- isn't likely to be taken too seriously the first time. But when you get to the level of spells that are save-or-die (mostly 6th and 7th level divine spells, in my case), one misstep results in a dead PC. Regarding the answers... It sounds like the GM can rule that the blade barrier is inside a square instead of along the edge and be considered reasonable. Cool, I got one right. :) Some people said that reaching through should still provide a Reflex save. I was thinking that the blades are constantly spinning around, like a fan blade, so putting your hand in shouldn't get a Reflex save. Just like putting your hand on a hot stove wouldn't get a Reflex save -- it's not a reflexive action to pull your hand out. You purposefully put it in there, for heaven's sake! But I'll make a note to allow a Reflex save in the future. Q 1C about "either side of the barrier" seems to be an interesting one. :) I hadn't thought about moving into an opponent's square would force you prone. I noticed no one made any mention of the size difference (Large vs. Medium). An argument could be made -- I think -- that a STR check or something similar might allow the Large creature to push the Medium one aside, but then that sounds like a bull rush. :( So I'll make a note that you can choose the side you exit on, but if you choose an opponent's square, you fall prone and provoke an attack of opportunity in doing so. Requiring a Listen check DC 20 to pinpoint sounds like a common ruling, so I'll go with that in the future. Sounds like I shouldn't have allowed the player to convince me otherwise. :) I didn't think [i]wall of force[/i] or similar spells would block sound. One of the BBEG's other prepared spells was Otiluke's resilient sphere and it's also "Evocation [Force]" and specifically says nothing can pass through the sphere, in or out. I have to assume that includes light and sound, too. That's backed up by the use of "shimmering" in the first sentence. The [i]wall of force[/i] doesn't say that, so I figured it was supposed to work differently... I didn't really think [i]control winds[/i] should be able to contain the acid fog and move it at the same time. (And I didn't push it; I just let it disperse.) I just figured that if the winds could be controlled by magic, couldn't they be placed such that the fog didn't disperse but was contained instead? And I know the "combat mode" question was a tough one. :( The BBEG had disappeared and I had continued combat for another 3 rounds before asking if they wanted to break out of combat. In the round in which the BBEG disappeared, she dropped 30 feet and saw the trussed up creature. While the party did other stuff, she finished moving to place herself and dismissed the spell. Then one round each for the two creatures there, both unconscious. This is where we left it. On her next rounds, she will step into the "D. Stone" and then into her chamber to collect her "things". I'm playing that for her to enter the stone that easily is due to her constant exposure to it as mentioned in BotB or the module FAQ. Notice she's not in a huge hurry. She still has 36 hit points and quite a few spells left. She'll find her stuff gone, then step into the stone again and start down to the first floor of the tower. Or she may heal up and try attacking from inside the stone. I haven't decided on that last part. You can see that by the time I took the party out of combat, the attacks on their two companions had already happened. One player was upset because there was no noise. Huh?! With the blade barrier going, there's going to be some noise where the combat took place, and besides ... how much noise does it make to coup de grace an unconscious creature with a knife or dagger?? Thanks all. :) Good stuff. I'll chew on this a little more and then start writing notes in the margin of the SRD for these spells. ;) [/QUOTE]
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