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Balance of Power Problems in 5e: Self created?
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<blockquote data-quote="MostlyDm" data-source="post: 7027704" data-attributes="member: 6788973"><p>So the only way to effectively discover the whereabouts of the BBEG are... what, in this scenario? Scrying doesn't work if you don't know who you're scrying for. Seems like you're assuming some kind of divination spell, but I can't for the life of me figure out what.</p><p></p><p>And the only way to make the time constraint is teleport? Which means the all divine casters fail at step 2, by the way, as 9th level divines have no mass transit magic. And this was for PCs 7-9 so it's worth mentioning that every party of 7th or 8th level also fails... Teleportation Circle is a 5th level spell.</p><p></p><p>Let's assume you didn't intend to limit the success criteria only to parties that have a 9th level Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard who happens to have Teleportation Circle. Is that fair to say? I'm going to say it anyway.</p><p></p><p>This is another option for how the all-martials party plays out: If we're truly all-martial, we only have 4 classes to choose from. Let's say we have a Totem Barbarian, a Battlemaster, a Shadow Monk, and an Assassin. Just because.</p><p></p><p>The rogue and the monk infiltrate the BBEG's outpost and steal documents that reveal his secret underwater lair. Since there are two of them, and they're very good at this, it's a bit of a cakewalk. Perhaps the Assassin even goes in the front door, masquerading as one of the BBEG's lieutenants. They don't even have to kill anybody! While they're there, they steal the BBEG's latest shipment of water-breathing potions that he sends to the humanoid minions who might need to visit him in his very inconvenient underwater base.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, the Fighter and the Barbarian have gone to a dangerous Griffon Aviary, where the beasts are raised by Cyclops trainers and sold for exorbitant prices. Without the silver-tongued assassin, they struggle to get a deal they can afford... until the Barbarian challenges the the head trainer to single combat for the right to be considered part of their clan. The barbarian, being an 8th level bear totem, trounces the Cyclops in a tough duel. Perhaps the Fighter has to do the same, if that sounds more fun to you.</p><p></p><p>The party regroups at a previously determined location with the location and the griffon mounts. They mount up and fly with all haste to their destination. Along the way, the Assassin realizes that the underwater keep is apparently also in some sort of perpetual ice-fog that can kill. So they briefly detour to the Tower of Golems, where a powerful and eccentric wizard lives. Dealing with him can be dangerous, especially if you wish to try to buy or sell any powerful magical items... but simple potions and scrolls can be had for those with sufficient coin. As 7th-9th level adventurers, of course, our party has plenty of coin. They buy a few potions of cold resistance, then it's back to the skies.</p><p></p><p>They arrive at the base, quaff their potions of water breathing, and fight their way through. They drink the cold resistance potions before entering the final chamber, and mop the floor with the BBEG and his minions. Even with cold resistance, though, the Assassin and the Fighter are killed from the mounting environmental damage and accumulated damage from the combat, since they lack a dedicated healer.</p><p></p><p>The Barbarian and the Monk drag their friends out of the lair and start heading back to civilization. They'll have to donate a large fund to the Church of the Redeemer in order to get their friends raised, but that's the cost of being an adventurer. Luckily, the local king is going to pay them a fortune for saving his kingdom, so it should wash out in the end.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MostlyDm, post: 7027704, member: 6788973"] So the only way to effectively discover the whereabouts of the BBEG are... what, in this scenario? Scrying doesn't work if you don't know who you're scrying for. Seems like you're assuming some kind of divination spell, but I can't for the life of me figure out what. And the only way to make the time constraint is teleport? Which means the all divine casters fail at step 2, by the way, as 9th level divines have no mass transit magic. And this was for PCs 7-9 so it's worth mentioning that every party of 7th or 8th level also fails... Teleportation Circle is a 5th level spell. Let's assume you didn't intend to limit the success criteria only to parties that have a 9th level Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard who happens to have Teleportation Circle. Is that fair to say? I'm going to say it anyway. This is another option for how the all-martials party plays out: If we're truly all-martial, we only have 4 classes to choose from. Let's say we have a Totem Barbarian, a Battlemaster, a Shadow Monk, and an Assassin. Just because. The rogue and the monk infiltrate the BBEG's outpost and steal documents that reveal his secret underwater lair. Since there are two of them, and they're very good at this, it's a bit of a cakewalk. Perhaps the Assassin even goes in the front door, masquerading as one of the BBEG's lieutenants. They don't even have to kill anybody! While they're there, they steal the BBEG's latest shipment of water-breathing potions that he sends to the humanoid minions who might need to visit him in his very inconvenient underwater base. Meanwhile, the Fighter and the Barbarian have gone to a dangerous Griffon Aviary, where the beasts are raised by Cyclops trainers and sold for exorbitant prices. Without the silver-tongued assassin, they struggle to get a deal they can afford... until the Barbarian challenges the the head trainer to single combat for the right to be considered part of their clan. The barbarian, being an 8th level bear totem, trounces the Cyclops in a tough duel. Perhaps the Fighter has to do the same, if that sounds more fun to you. The party regroups at a previously determined location with the location and the griffon mounts. They mount up and fly with all haste to their destination. Along the way, the Assassin realizes that the underwater keep is apparently also in some sort of perpetual ice-fog that can kill. So they briefly detour to the Tower of Golems, where a powerful and eccentric wizard lives. Dealing with him can be dangerous, especially if you wish to try to buy or sell any powerful magical items... but simple potions and scrolls can be had for those with sufficient coin. As 7th-9th level adventurers, of course, our party has plenty of coin. They buy a few potions of cold resistance, then it's back to the skies. They arrive at the base, quaff their potions of water breathing, and fight their way through. They drink the cold resistance potions before entering the final chamber, and mop the floor with the BBEG and his minions. Even with cold resistance, though, the Assassin and the Fighter are killed from the mounting environmental damage and accumulated damage from the combat, since they lack a dedicated healer. The Barbarian and the Monk drag their friends out of the lair and start heading back to civilization. They'll have to donate a large fund to the Church of the Redeemer in order to get their friends raised, but that's the cost of being an adventurer. Luckily, the local king is going to pay them a fortune for saving his kingdom, so it should wash out in the end. [/QUOTE]
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