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Balanced Race? Judge the 'Perfects'
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<blockquote data-quote="DarkKestral" data-source="post: 3623130" data-attributes="member: 40100"><p>OK, let me just show an example: a human fighter 20 vs. a perfect fighter 18/Barbarian 1: Given the elite array, and they both prioritize Str and Con, with the next biggest scores in Dex and Wis, while saving the mediocre/bad scores for Int and Cha.</p><p></p><p>Human fighter has 15 Str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, 12 Wis, 10 Int, and 8 Cha before bonuses from leveling and items. a total of 69 skill points, and 8 general feats and of course, 11 fighter feats. Let's say he optimizes for damage, so at 20, he has 20 Str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, 12 Wis, 10 Int, and 8 Cha, so at 20, he has a +5 to hit and damage before feats are included. Assuming he also has Greater Weapon focus/spec, he has an additional +2 to hit and +4 to damage with his favored weapon, for a total full attack of +26/+21/+16/+11 before any stuff like TWF has been factored in. He has a total of 140 HP on average, with a maximum of 240 or a minimum of 60. He can power attack for a total of +40 damage per hit using a 2H weapon. His saves will be +17 Fort, +7 Ref, +7 Will.</p><p></p><p>Our Perfect fighter will take the same focus, and will have 17 Str, 16 Con, 15 Dex, 14 Wis, 12 Int, and 10 Cha. He'll have a total of 69 skill points, 8 general feats, and 10 fighter feats. He'll also optimize for damage, so he'll end up with +5 to hit and +5 to damage, but he'll end up with 16 Dex at the end. He's got rage 1/day though or maybe a bit more, if he picked an appropriate time to pick up Extra Rage feats, so while raging, he'll have +7 to hit and +7 to damage giving him a total of +27/+22/+17/+12, and pick up an additional 38 hit points. He'll also have a higher base speed, if he's using mithral full plate, since it counts as light armor. Given that he will already outclass the max dex of normal full plate, he'll probably go for the mithral stuff at high levels, and it will mean that he'll have the same AC as the Human fighter when raging, or a little more when he isn't. He'll have 149.5 HP on average, with a minimum of 79, and a maximum of 252. Assuming he has power attack and a 2H weapon, but he'll have a fairly similar max and average damage as the fighter when raging, assuming they both go to the same +dmg point with power attacks. When raging, the perfect will hit a little more often than the fighter will, though. He'll also have a slightly higher move speed, since he picked up the extra speed from the barbarian level. His saves will be +18 Fort, +9 Ref, +8 Will when not raging, and +20 Fort +9 Ref, and +10 Will when raging. </p><p></p><p>So.. what do we see from all this? Essentially, assuming the right builds, the LA+1 perfect fighter/barbarian can outclass/match the human fighter in every possible way, except the one fighter feat, and so that feat had better be VERY potent, because the perfect gets a sort of 'Superior Weapon Focus', and 'Great Fortitude' and 'Iron Will' from having those better stats when raging. Since this isn't generally the case with fighter feats, he's essentially SoL, assuming an otherwise core rules game.</p><p></p><p>In other words, LA+1 is not fair to the players of human characters. The only reason I took the single barbarian level is that any uneven LA fighter is stupid if he lets his last level be only d10 HD, +1 BAB, and 2 skill points when he could get d12 HD, +1 BAB, 4 skill points (and a class skill list which includes all of the fighter's class skills), +2 Fort, rage 1/day, and 10 ft. extra move speed in medium/light/no armor. The only time the fighter gets to shine is if he whores his extra feat and he gets hit with a lot of HD-dependent effects that change categories precisely when you go from 19 to 20 HD. That won't be very often.</p><p></p><p>Thus, I will say that you will NEED LA+2 or more to balance things out. Let me repeat: LA+2 or more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DarkKestral, post: 3623130, member: 40100"] OK, let me just show an example: a human fighter 20 vs. a perfect fighter 18/Barbarian 1: Given the elite array, and they both prioritize Str and Con, with the next biggest scores in Dex and Wis, while saving the mediocre/bad scores for Int and Cha. Human fighter has 15 Str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, 12 Wis, 10 Int, and 8 Cha before bonuses from leveling and items. a total of 69 skill points, and 8 general feats and of course, 11 fighter feats. Let's say he optimizes for damage, so at 20, he has 20 Str, 14 Con, 13 Dex, 12 Wis, 10 Int, and 8 Cha, so at 20, he has a +5 to hit and damage before feats are included. Assuming he also has Greater Weapon focus/spec, he has an additional +2 to hit and +4 to damage with his favored weapon, for a total full attack of +26/+21/+16/+11 before any stuff like TWF has been factored in. He has a total of 140 HP on average, with a maximum of 240 or a minimum of 60. He can power attack for a total of +40 damage per hit using a 2H weapon. His saves will be +17 Fort, +7 Ref, +7 Will. Our Perfect fighter will take the same focus, and will have 17 Str, 16 Con, 15 Dex, 14 Wis, 12 Int, and 10 Cha. He'll have a total of 69 skill points, 8 general feats, and 10 fighter feats. He'll also optimize for damage, so he'll end up with +5 to hit and +5 to damage, but he'll end up with 16 Dex at the end. He's got rage 1/day though or maybe a bit more, if he picked an appropriate time to pick up Extra Rage feats, so while raging, he'll have +7 to hit and +7 to damage giving him a total of +27/+22/+17/+12, and pick up an additional 38 hit points. He'll also have a higher base speed, if he's using mithral full plate, since it counts as light armor. Given that he will already outclass the max dex of normal full plate, he'll probably go for the mithral stuff at high levels, and it will mean that he'll have the same AC as the Human fighter when raging, or a little more when he isn't. He'll have 149.5 HP on average, with a minimum of 79, and a maximum of 252. Assuming he has power attack and a 2H weapon, but he'll have a fairly similar max and average damage as the fighter when raging, assuming they both go to the same +dmg point with power attacks. When raging, the perfect will hit a little more often than the fighter will, though. He'll also have a slightly higher move speed, since he picked up the extra speed from the barbarian level. His saves will be +18 Fort, +9 Ref, +8 Will when not raging, and +20 Fort +9 Ref, and +10 Will when raging. So.. what do we see from all this? Essentially, assuming the right builds, the LA+1 perfect fighter/barbarian can outclass/match the human fighter in every possible way, except the one fighter feat, and so that feat had better be VERY potent, because the perfect gets a sort of 'Superior Weapon Focus', and 'Great Fortitude' and 'Iron Will' from having those better stats when raging. Since this isn't generally the case with fighter feats, he's essentially SoL, assuming an otherwise core rules game. In other words, LA+1 is not fair to the players of human characters. The only reason I took the single barbarian level is that any uneven LA fighter is stupid if he lets his last level be only d10 HD, +1 BAB, and 2 skill points when he could get d12 HD, +1 BAB, 4 skill points (and a class skill list which includes all of the fighter's class skills), +2 Fort, rage 1/day, and 10 ft. extra move speed in medium/light/no armor. The only time the fighter gets to shine is if he whores his extra feat and he gets hit with a lot of HD-dependent effects that change categories precisely when you go from 19 to 20 HD. That won't be very often. Thus, I will say that you will NEED LA+2 or more to balance things out. Let me repeat: LA+2 or more. [/QUOTE]
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