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Banishing Eldritch Blast
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7518469" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>I agree Eldritch Blast could be more of a class feature (see my question on that below), and for the sake of interesting play I am pursuing an intuition it that could be broadened to damage-dealing cantrips generally. Regarding Rogue maximising Sneak Attack versus Warlock maximising Eldritch Blast? I know the builds you mean and have played one, going the Riposte route. A Warlock needs to choose one invocation (which they can do at 2nd level) to gain a highly-optimised attack. Rogue needs to either cunningly multiclass, or take Scout archetype and wait until 17th (!) level, to optimise Sneak Attack, or pick-up Sentinel (at 4th level) to broaden their trigger conditions. Maybe all three <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Or choose one invocation. At level 2.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed, strong Eldritch Blast is functioning as intended. So in my view nothing should pare it down to being a weak attack. I'm suggesting (admittedly, the jury is still out) that it could be "once-per-turn", and still be easily strong-enough. Posters here have brought in perspectives that make me want to go back and check my assumptions, of course. I don't want to pretend that I know the answer to the "how strong?" question right now.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm thinking of tweaking my house rules to make Eldritch + Agonizing base class features. What is holding me up is Blade pact. I've lately been thinking about Hexblade characters that don't want Eldritch Blast because they'd never fit it into their action-economy. They don't have the spare actions to cast it with. What do you think about those? Doesn't it hem them in, or feel redundant to make them take Eldritch + Agonizing?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean that in comparing DPS, some analysis assumes that the character will be able to apply their attack every turn. A great example is GWM melee. I use a wide variety of battlemaps and on them I see melee characters typically spending either the first or a later turn of a fight positioning. So if a fight is typically 5 rounds long, they have 4 rounds of up-time. Conversely, ranged characters are often able to attack every round due to their reach. Their target selection is better, too. They probably drop a round over a couple of fights. Still, they have overall better "up-time". Sometimes I see ambitious builds that ignore attacks-back. Time spent dying is not time attacking, again reducing up-time. The final factor is resources. In tiers 2 and 3 for example, a Battlemaster can land far more hits than they have superiority dice to spend on.</p><p></p><p>So positioning, target selection, sustainability and resources = attacks/rounds = up-time. </p><p></p><p>Some examples: I currently put Hunter's Mark and Hex up-time at 0.65, GWM up-time at 0.8, and Cleave up-time at 0.43. Ranged attacks I put at 1.0. Abilities like Action Surge increase "up-time" so a 1HS Battlemaster can count their melee at 1.0. Inadequate defence reduces up-time by at least 0.2.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7518469, member: 71699"] I agree Eldritch Blast could be more of a class feature (see my question on that below), and for the sake of interesting play I am pursuing an intuition it that could be broadened to damage-dealing cantrips generally. Regarding Rogue maximising Sneak Attack versus Warlock maximising Eldritch Blast? I know the builds you mean and have played one, going the Riposte route. A Warlock needs to choose one invocation (which they can do at 2nd level) to gain a highly-optimised attack. Rogue needs to either cunningly multiclass, or take Scout archetype and wait until 17th (!) level, to optimise Sneak Attack, or pick-up Sentinel (at 4th level) to broaden their trigger conditions. Maybe all three :) Or choose one invocation. At level 2. Agreed, strong Eldritch Blast is functioning as intended. So in my view nothing should pare it down to being a weak attack. I'm suggesting (admittedly, the jury is still out) that it could be "once-per-turn", and still be easily strong-enough. Posters here have brought in perspectives that make me want to go back and check my assumptions, of course. I don't want to pretend that I know the answer to the "how strong?" question right now. I'm thinking of tweaking my house rules to make Eldritch + Agonizing base class features. What is holding me up is Blade pact. I've lately been thinking about Hexblade characters that don't want Eldritch Blast because they'd never fit it into their action-economy. They don't have the spare actions to cast it with. What do you think about those? Doesn't it hem them in, or feel redundant to make them take Eldritch + Agonizing? I mean that in comparing DPS, some analysis assumes that the character will be able to apply their attack every turn. A great example is GWM melee. I use a wide variety of battlemaps and on them I see melee characters typically spending either the first or a later turn of a fight positioning. So if a fight is typically 5 rounds long, they have 4 rounds of up-time. Conversely, ranged characters are often able to attack every round due to their reach. Their target selection is better, too. They probably drop a round over a couple of fights. Still, they have overall better "up-time". Sometimes I see ambitious builds that ignore attacks-back. Time spent dying is not time attacking, again reducing up-time. The final factor is resources. In tiers 2 and 3 for example, a Battlemaster can land far more hits than they have superiority dice to spend on. So positioning, target selection, sustainability and resources = attacks/rounds = up-time. Some examples: I currently put Hunter's Mark and Hex up-time at 0.65, GWM up-time at 0.8, and Cleave up-time at 0.43. Ranged attacks I put at 1.0. Abilities like Action Surge increase "up-time" so a 1HS Battlemaster can count their melee at 1.0. Inadequate defence reduces up-time by at least 0.2. [/QUOTE]
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