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Battle Mage (custom)
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<blockquote data-quote="Sound of Azure" data-source="post: 3594390" data-attributes="member: 40749"><p><strong>Battle Mage, whoo!</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>In advance, I apologise for any harshness in my post.</strong> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>First of all, thanks for posting this up. I'm glad you weren't too demoralised by the reaction to your Dragon Bound. </p><p></p><p>I take it you don't like the Duskblade (<em>Player's handbook II</em>), Hexblade (<em>Complete Warrior</em>), or Battle Sorcerer (<em>Unearthed Arcana</em>)?</p><p></p><p>It's a shame your new class isn't laid out as nicely, but as you are in the middle of a move, that's fair enough (though if I were you, I would have waited until you moved before posting it up). I'm not going to get harsh on you about spelling and punctuation, but I'll say you really need to go over your document a bit (a lot?) more.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, on to the Battle Mage.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Tougher than a regular mage. Ok, cool.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, it's a cleric then.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Um, ok. I guess we'll see why when you post up the background materials. I don't see anything particularly chaotic about the class, looking at it now.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No class skills, or just not listed yet?</p><p></p><p>Please give this class base skill points of at least 2 + Int modifier. I understand that most Battle Mages will have a positive Intelligence modifier due to their spellcasting mechanic, but 0 base skill points is atrocious.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Some unclear writing here. You could interpret this as the class being only proficient with thrown simple weapons. </p><p></p><p>I don't understand why the battle mage receives no armour proficiency since they get an armoured casting ability (however, see below). You shoud make a note of the Battle Mage's ability to ignore spell failure from light (and later, medium) armour.</p><p></p><p>Your description also notes that Battle Mages can "cast spells with light weapons, and thrown weapons without hindrance". Does this mean that a Battle Mage can cast spells with such items in their hands? Note that this description is rendered irrelevent by your description of their Spellcasting later. </p><p></p><p>Your "Spells" section notes that a Battle Mage's spells have no material, somatic, or verbal components. This renders all arcane spell failure moot, since it only applies to (arcane) spells with somatic components. So, which is it?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd say many Battle Mages multiclass, especially with no arcane spell failure. I find your spellcasting ability restriction nonsensical, though. I personally wouldn't leave it in. </p><p></p><p></p><p> !!! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /> </p><p></p><p>If you have Complete Divine, there's an interesting class in there called the Spirit Shaman. They "know" all druid spells and have spontaneous casting. However, they can only have a small number of spells at each spell level "retrieved" from the spirit world on any given day. </p><p></p><p>If you want "open book" casting though, by all means go ahead. I just can't see how that would be balanced, even if the spells are restricted to being used in battle.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Interesting. Could create some multiple ability dependency. Why Con, by the way?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See above for some issues I have with how this interacts with armour proficiency and the armoured casting ability.</p><p></p><p>I think it's a bad idea to omit all the components (V, S, M) from a spellcaster. Note that you also omit XP and focus components. Free <em>Wishes</em> and <em>Miracles</em> during battle? Yes, please!</p><p></p><p>Being immune to spell failure from being in combat is extremely strong, in my opinion. It should go. If you want to make the class more resilient against being disrupted, you could give a scaling competence bonus on Concentration checks to keep a spell if struck in combat. That seems more in character for a rough and tumble battle mage to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, you're changing how the class gets bonus spells too? I'd say you should stick to the normal bonus spell option, since the spellcasting is otherwise identical. If it were a completely different spellcasting mechanic, I could see you changing this. Otherwise, it seems like a bad idea.</p><p></p><p>Note also that as the Battle Mage increases its "Stat", they get more and more return compared to the regular way of gaining bonus spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's an interesting idea. You may want to list it as a seperate class ability later.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it would be a good idea to explicitly state what the Battle Mage is restricted to (eg. Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer/Wizard spells from the x, y, and z schools). This will create less confusion.</p><p></p><p>As it stands, a Battle Mage couldn't heal his allies, since it doesn't directly aid him. Is this your intention?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This seems really arbitrary. If you want to encourage the making of "battle items", perhaps you could give Battle Mages a discount on the cost to create such "Battle items". If you want to stick with this, it would be a good idea to explicitly list what magic item types are "battle items".</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>"To cast a Battle Mage spell, the lowest of your Constitution, Intelligence, or Wisdom score must be equal or greater than 10 + the spell's level. The difficulty class... etc"</p><p></p><p>Personally, I'd stick with a single ability score for both DCs and spellcasting ability. If you're adamant on having more than one, I'd make both instances require the average (or else just use two ability scores.</p><p></p><p>Again... why Con ? Why Wis and not Cha also, for that matter?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Seems like annoying book-keeping.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Given the class's unskilled nature, this seems wholly inappropriate.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Given that the class's spell have no Somatic components, they woudn't suffer arcane spell failure anyway.</p><p></p><p>How can a class get mastery in armour without being proficient in any?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You already said that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't see these as a good idea, given the class's other abilities. If you want the class to be resistant to spell effects, why not give them an ability like Mettle, possibly bit by bit (Say Will first, the Fortitude later). Other ideas might be a (scaling) resistance bonus against spells and spell-like abilities, or an ability like Slippery Mind.</p><p></p><p>As it stands, the Battle Mage will make himself immune to his own spells that would "aid" him.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Do you mean the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, or proficiency with all martial weapons? It's an important distinction.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p>In conclusion... this needs a fair bit of cleaning up and clarification. The main thing it needs is expanation on what you are trying to achieve, and willingness of the Author to listen to advice and suggestions as the thread goes on. </p><p></p><p>If these things occur, I'm sure the Battle Mage can become a balanced and extremely cool class to play. I look forward to your response.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sound of Azure, post: 3594390, member: 40749"] [b]Battle Mage, whoo![/b] [B]In advance, I apologise for any harshness in my post.[/B] :) First of all, thanks for posting this up. I'm glad you weren't too demoralised by the reaction to your Dragon Bound. I take it you don't like the Duskblade ([I]Player's handbook II[/I]), Hexblade ([I]Complete Warrior[/I]), or Battle Sorcerer ([I]Unearthed Arcana[/I])? It's a shame your new class isn't laid out as nicely, but as you are in the middle of a move, that's fair enough (though if I were you, I would have waited until you moved before posting it up). I'm not going to get harsh on you about spelling and punctuation, but I'll say you really need to go over your document a bit (a lot?) more. Anyhow, on to the Battle Mage. Tougher than a regular mage. Ok, cool. So, it's a cleric then. Um, ok. I guess we'll see why when you post up the background materials. I don't see anything particularly chaotic about the class, looking at it now. No class skills, or just not listed yet? Please give this class base skill points of at least 2 + Int modifier. I understand that most Battle Mages will have a positive Intelligence modifier due to their spellcasting mechanic, but 0 base skill points is atrocious. Some unclear writing here. You could interpret this as the class being only proficient with thrown simple weapons. I don't understand why the battle mage receives no armour proficiency since they get an armoured casting ability (however, see below). You shoud make a note of the Battle Mage's ability to ignore spell failure from light (and later, medium) armour. Your description also notes that Battle Mages can "cast spells with light weapons, and thrown weapons without hindrance". Does this mean that a Battle Mage can cast spells with such items in their hands? Note that this description is rendered irrelevent by your description of their Spellcasting later. Your "Spells" section notes that a Battle Mage's spells have no material, somatic, or verbal components. This renders all arcane spell failure moot, since it only applies to (arcane) spells with somatic components. So, which is it? I'd say many Battle Mages multiclass, especially with no arcane spell failure. I find your spellcasting ability restriction nonsensical, though. I personally wouldn't leave it in. !!! :confused: If you have Complete Divine, there's an interesting class in there called the Spirit Shaman. They "know" all druid spells and have spontaneous casting. However, they can only have a small number of spells at each spell level "retrieved" from the spirit world on any given day. If you want "open book" casting though, by all means go ahead. I just can't see how that would be balanced, even if the spells are restricted to being used in battle. Interesting. Could create some multiple ability dependency. Why Con, by the way? See above for some issues I have with how this interacts with armour proficiency and the armoured casting ability. I think it's a bad idea to omit all the components (V, S, M) from a spellcaster. Note that you also omit XP and focus components. Free [I]Wishes[/I] and [I]Miracles[/I] during battle? Yes, please! Being immune to spell failure from being in combat is extremely strong, in my opinion. It should go. If you want to make the class more resilient against being disrupted, you could give a scaling competence bonus on Concentration checks to keep a spell if struck in combat. That seems more in character for a rough and tumble battle mage to me. So, you're changing how the class gets bonus spells too? I'd say you should stick to the normal bonus spell option, since the spellcasting is otherwise identical. If it were a completely different spellcasting mechanic, I could see you changing this. Otherwise, it seems like a bad idea. Note also that as the Battle Mage increases its "Stat", they get more and more return compared to the regular way of gaining bonus spells. It's an interesting idea. You may want to list it as a seperate class ability later. I think it would be a good idea to explicitly state what the Battle Mage is restricted to (eg. Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer/Wizard spells from the x, y, and z schools). This will create less confusion. As it stands, a Battle Mage couldn't heal his allies, since it doesn't directly aid him. Is this your intention? This seems really arbitrary. If you want to encourage the making of "battle items", perhaps you could give Battle Mages a discount on the cost to create such "Battle items". If you want to stick with this, it would be a good idea to explicitly list what magic item types are "battle items". "To cast a Battle Mage spell, the lowest of your Constitution, Intelligence, or Wisdom score must be equal or greater than 10 + the spell's level. The difficulty class... etc" Personally, I'd stick with a single ability score for both DCs and spellcasting ability. If you're adamant on having more than one, I'd make both instances require the average (or else just use two ability scores. Again... why Con ? Why Wis and not Cha also, for that matter? Seems like annoying book-keeping. Given the class's unskilled nature, this seems wholly inappropriate. Given that the class's spell have no Somatic components, they woudn't suffer arcane spell failure anyway. How can a class get mastery in armour without being proficient in any? You already said that. I can't see these as a good idea, given the class's other abilities. If you want the class to be resistant to spell effects, why not give them an ability like Mettle, possibly bit by bit (Say Will first, the Fortitude later). Other ideas might be a (scaling) resistance bonus against spells and spell-like abilities, or an ability like Slippery Mind. As it stands, the Battle Mage will make himself immune to his own spells that would "aid" him. Do you mean the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, or proficiency with all martial weapons? It's an important distinction. --- In conclusion... this needs a fair bit of cleaning up and clarification. The main thing it needs is expanation on what you are trying to achieve, and willingness of the Author to listen to advice and suggestions as the thread goes on. If these things occur, I'm sure the Battle Mage can become a balanced and extremely cool class to play. I look forward to your response. [/QUOTE]
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