Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Battlemaster and Superiority Dice are causing martials to suffer.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8773510" data-attributes="member: 82504"><p>Except</p><p>I enumerated the real effect as probably 2 attacks worth over that full battle. And I was saying those other spells have much more impact and dealing with those is maybe more important you just showed how you would do so for one type, but if you have monsters all just know his allies can be shaken out of the effects of the spell you may just engaging in your obviously favorite metagaming past time<strong>. </strong></p><p></p><p>You showed with that how you would be dealing with that instead of attacking the familiar ignoring the familiar while doing that, which is actually part of my point and if the player caster is using faerrie fire and that is doing its job then advantage may not even be needed and similar things. Attacks against a creature in your web spell already have advantage and so on</p><p></p><p>The maneuver distracting attack with the extra damage die included remains inferior by a large factor though the die scales mildly 1/3 of an attack plus a die is less than 2 attacks ... And even if you start your familiar hunt immediately the 1 die extra damage is less than the damage the familiar can likely soak providing defense in the form of damage that never is taken by the PC and that is math too... kind of like a 10GP healing potion which you do not have spend action economy drinking.</p><p></p><p>The damage bonus is worth zero if you are unwilling to consider the defense damage reduction worth something in spite of your claims is not a non-effect just an effect which a part of the attrition system just like a shield spell is also not a non-effect though shield is incredible affecting all incoming attacks the number of multi-attacks you get hit by as you level probably increase so the spells value does not go down much.</p><p></p><p>The value of most maneuvers that can be measured is basically 1 attack more or less. *distracting attack is just a poor one even poorer than I was thinking. So lets do a better comparison. The 6 rounds if you do not hunt the familiar has the familiar providing the benefit of about 2 pbms (predictably better maneuvers.) on the assumption that another source of advantage isnt already in effect like ie faerrie fire or flanking or adj is not going. LOL (pbms) Like a riposte or one that lets you get in a thrown attack alongside youri normal one perhaps <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />. If you start hunting familiar after it actually enables a hit that would not have hit otherwise the offensive value is 1 + and the defensive value may be as much as 2 monster attacks at low level (with an improvised weapon and long range)</p><p></p><p>This is only a measure of the combat use of the one highly combat oriented/value familiar... and that is by far not the only uses find familiar can be put to... way better than distracting attack (trash) and much closer to being able to use a riposte twice per 6 round fight for example,</p><p> </p><p> Shrug frequent familiar hunts ranges treats that effect as way too valuable in my opinion without a rogue present and ranges from metagaming to a DM being an a** ie you called it I agree your dming is mean though to a different degree of the spite of attacking the downed PC, but I also think taking it out is not the super duper value you claim. (yes its not negligible but its not the must do action that all NPCs will think to do even if they can. Some enemies might think of it right away others might if the bird manages to interfere once enough so they get hit when they wouldn't before, regardless will they switch out from their two handed or chase past enemies triggering opportunity attacks to reach it ). In fact if your owl can induce a melee enemy to trigger 1 opportunity attack once that is 1 pbm LOL</p><p></p><p>Recasting a spell you had interrupted/cancelled takes another slot and another action... pretending that is nothing both in terms of action economy and player oriented resources is deceptive. Yes it takes two rolls to get through but the effect is far greater. Further your attack on the familiar may be at disadvantage or impossible, I am still wondering how that lion is going to be throwing something. There can and will be large numbers of melee enemies as you can see in the monster manual and many make no sense to throw anything at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Garthanos, post: 8773510, member: 82504"] Except I enumerated the real effect as probably 2 attacks worth over that full battle. And I was saying those other spells have much more impact and dealing with those is maybe more important you just showed how you would do so for one type, but if you have monsters all just know his allies can be shaken out of the effects of the spell you may just engaging in your obviously favorite metagaming past time[B]. [/B] You showed with that how you would be dealing with that instead of attacking the familiar ignoring the familiar while doing that, which is actually part of my point and if the player caster is using faerrie fire and that is doing its job then advantage may not even be needed and similar things. Attacks against a creature in your web spell already have advantage and so on The maneuver distracting attack with the extra damage die included remains inferior by a large factor though the die scales mildly 1/3 of an attack plus a die is less than 2 attacks ... And even if you start your familiar hunt immediately the 1 die extra damage is less than the damage the familiar can likely soak providing defense in the form of damage that never is taken by the PC and that is math too... kind of like a 10GP healing potion which you do not have spend action economy drinking. The damage bonus is worth zero if you are unwilling to consider the defense damage reduction worth something in spite of your claims is not a non-effect just an effect which a part of the attrition system just like a shield spell is also not a non-effect though shield is incredible affecting all incoming attacks the number of multi-attacks you get hit by as you level probably increase so the spells value does not go down much. The value of most maneuvers that can be measured is basically 1 attack more or less. *distracting attack is just a poor one even poorer than I was thinking. So lets do a better comparison. The 6 rounds if you do not hunt the familiar has the familiar providing the benefit of about 2 pbms (predictably better maneuvers.) on the assumption that another source of advantage isnt already in effect like ie faerrie fire or flanking or adj is not going. LOL (pbms) Like a riposte or one that lets you get in a thrown attack alongside youri normal one perhaps :). If you start hunting familiar after it actually enables a hit that would not have hit otherwise the offensive value is 1 + and the defensive value may be as much as 2 monster attacks at low level (with an improvised weapon and long range) This is only a measure of the combat use of the one highly combat oriented/value familiar... and that is by far not the only uses find familiar can be put to... way better than distracting attack (trash) and much closer to being able to use a riposte twice per 6 round fight for example, Shrug frequent familiar hunts ranges treats that effect as way too valuable in my opinion without a rogue present and ranges from metagaming to a DM being an a** ie you called it I agree your dming is mean though to a different degree of the spite of attacking the downed PC, but I also think taking it out is not the super duper value you claim. (yes its not negligible but its not the must do action that all NPCs will think to do even if they can. Some enemies might think of it right away others might if the bird manages to interfere once enough so they get hit when they wouldn't before, regardless will they switch out from their two handed or chase past enemies triggering opportunity attacks to reach it ). In fact if your owl can induce a melee enemy to trigger 1 opportunity attack once that is 1 pbm LOL Recasting a spell you had interrupted/cancelled takes another slot and another action... pretending that is nothing both in terms of action economy and player oriented resources is deceptive. Yes it takes two rolls to get through but the effect is far greater. Further your attack on the familiar may be at disadvantage or impossible, I am still wondering how that lion is going to be throwing something. There can and will be large numbers of melee enemies as you can see in the monster manual and many make no sense to throw anything at all. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Battlemaster and Superiority Dice are causing martials to suffer.
Top