Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Behind the design of 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons: Well my impression as least.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gnarl45" data-source="post: 6479709" data-attributes="member: 6787695"><p>Try things like adding 3e-style save or die effects (and not save or save or save or die effects) without screwing up the class/power balance. If you add a proper save or die, you need to modify every other daily power to make them comparable to your save or die. If you increase the power of every daily power, you need to rework the monster math.</p><p></p><p>Halving monster HP isn't really a solution. It takes care of the combat speed but it screws up the monster balance and it makes the game less deadly. You also need to increase the damage if you want to have quick and dirty tacticaless combats. I'm sure it worked for some, but so did 2e with its disfunctional monster XP. If you want a little more accuracy in your monster level/CR system, you need to redo the math. Half HP isn't good enough.</p><p></p><p>Adding utility magic so that non-combat plays more like 2e or 3e is also a lot of work if you want to do it properly. You first need to change the level of every single utility power and ritual. You then need to increase the availability. And if you want to do it cleanly, casters need to give up on some of their combat power in exchange for this availability. You need to rework the classes.</p><p></p><p>These are the kind of things that I tried tinkering with when 4e came out. And even if I didn't like 4e for various reasons, that mathematical framework made my mouth water. If you don't care about balance, sure it's easy to fix. But after seeing how it can be done, I wasn't ready to settle for anything less than functional math. If I wanted to play with disfunctional math, I would have sticked to 3e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I envie you! I have dozens of players that tried to twist the wording of the rules both in 2e and 3e to gain some mechanical benefits. In 2e, I could tell them to <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> off. In 3e, it was a lot harder because they could show me dozens of threads to back up their claim. I've also had groups of players that refused to play with me as their DM because I had nerfed some of the more problematic spells.</p><p></p><p>And it's a bit more vicious thant how you present it. Sometimes a rule just looks strange and you have that feeling it's going to break the game. That internet discussion just convinces you to let it fly in spite of your intuition. And once you accepted something with a group of players, it's hard to take their toys away.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gnarl45, post: 6479709, member: 6787695"] Try things like adding 3e-style save or die effects (and not save or save or save or die effects) without screwing up the class/power balance. If you add a proper save or die, you need to modify every other daily power to make them comparable to your save or die. If you increase the power of every daily power, you need to rework the monster math. Halving monster HP isn't really a solution. It takes care of the combat speed but it screws up the monster balance and it makes the game less deadly. You also need to increase the damage if you want to have quick and dirty tacticaless combats. I'm sure it worked for some, but so did 2e with its disfunctional monster XP. If you want a little more accuracy in your monster level/CR system, you need to redo the math. Half HP isn't good enough. Adding utility magic so that non-combat plays more like 2e or 3e is also a lot of work if you want to do it properly. You first need to change the level of every single utility power and ritual. You then need to increase the availability. And if you want to do it cleanly, casters need to give up on some of their combat power in exchange for this availability. You need to rework the classes. These are the kind of things that I tried tinkering with when 4e came out. And even if I didn't like 4e for various reasons, that mathematical framework made my mouth water. If you don't care about balance, sure it's easy to fix. But after seeing how it can be done, I wasn't ready to settle for anything less than functional math. If I wanted to play with disfunctional math, I would have sticked to 3e. I envie you! I have dozens of players that tried to twist the wording of the rules both in 2e and 3e to gain some mechanical benefits. In 2e, I could tell them to :):):):) off. In 3e, it was a lot harder because they could show me dozens of threads to back up their claim. I've also had groups of players that refused to play with me as their DM because I had nerfed some of the more problematic spells. And it's a bit more vicious thant how you present it. Sometimes a rule just looks strange and you have that feeling it's going to break the game. That internet discussion just convinces you to let it fly in spite of your intuition. And once you accepted something with a group of players, it's hard to take their toys away. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Behind the design of 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons: Well my impression as least.
Top