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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9212624" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Just to clarify. </p><p></p><p>When I’m talking about the similarities between 4e and 5e, I’m not saying they are the same game at all. </p><p></p><p>But, when people talk about why they don’t like 4e and then ignore the very same things in 5e, it’s pretty obvious that the issue isn’t one of substance. Not liking 4e because of dissociated mechanics is fine. I can understand the problem even if I don’t agree. But then turning around and lauding the very same mechanics in 5e is rather bewildering. A 5e rogue is an Olympic sprinter. No matter what, that character is twice as fast as almost any other character. Now, that doesn’t bother me. I like 4e. I have no issue here. But if that sort of thing bothered you in 4e elegy is it okay in 5e?</p><p></p><p>A fighter with ten hp takes nine damage. He is visibly wounded. Six seconds or less later he second winds and shouts his arm back on. Not a problem. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> Again this doesn’t faze me. But a 4e critic should be freaking out over this. On and on. </p><p></p><p>Every single problem you had with 4e appears in 5e. If you didn’t like something in 4e, why doesn’t it merit the same level of angst now? You being a generic, general, 4e critical you. </p><p></p><p>It’s not about the games playing the same. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about how all those huge issues that 4e had also appear in 5e but apparently are suddenly fine. </p><p></p><p>It’s like watching someone tell me how much they hate pineapple pizza while chowing down on pineapple pizza just because they cut up the pineapple smaller and then covered it with extra cheese. </p><p></p><p>At least the OSR crowd are consistent.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9212624, member: 22779"] Just to clarify. When I’m talking about the similarities between 4e and 5e, I’m not saying they are the same game at all. But, when people talk about why they don’t like 4e and then ignore the very same things in 5e, it’s pretty obvious that the issue isn’t one of substance. Not liking 4e because of dissociated mechanics is fine. I can understand the problem even if I don’t agree. But then turning around and lauding the very same mechanics in 5e is rather bewildering. A 5e rogue is an Olympic sprinter. No matter what, that character is twice as fast as almost any other character. Now, that doesn’t bother me. I like 4e. I have no issue here. But if that sort of thing bothered you in 4e elegy is it okay in 5e? A fighter with ten hp takes nine damage. He is visibly wounded. Six seconds or less later he second winds and shouts his arm back on. Not a problem. :erm: Again this doesn’t faze me. But a 4e critic should be freaking out over this. On and on. Every single problem you had with 4e appears in 5e. If you didn’t like something in 4e, why doesn’t it merit the same level of angst now? You being a generic, general, 4e critical you. It’s not about the games playing the same. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about how all those huge issues that 4e had also appear in 5e but apparently are suddenly fine. It’s like watching someone tell me how much they hate pineapple pizza while chowing down on pineapple pizza just because they cut up the pineapple smaller and then covered it with extra cheese. At least the OSR crowd are consistent. [/QUOTE]
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