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Best way to handle stronghold/domain rules
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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 4732495" data-attributes="member: 55966"><p>I dearly miss the rules for managing a domain, using henchmen and sages, and building a stronghold. I am unsatisfied with rules given in 3e for running a stronghold, as it seemed to be largely vanity to spend money on strongholds when you could be spending that money on magical items that keep you alive in the hack and slash of the DM's dungeons. I also really disliked the rules for getting followers, because you had one follower who doubled your power, and 100 followers who were of no use to you. </p><p></p><p>In prior editions to 3e you gained a stronghold and a domain as part of leveling up. However, If you have an adventure path in which the story doesn't allow for time to stop and build a castle, the rules rather get in the way. There was also the problem that some followers were better than others, but that's neither here nor there.</p><p></p><p>However, I think I have a solution to this problem. Treat strongholds, followers and domains alike as treasure instead of as a class/level ability or a feat. If you do a stronghold as treasure, the DM can give the players a stronghold or a title if it fits the campaign. The domain can produce income for the players and be a source of plot hooks.</p><p></p><p>For the treasure value of the stronghold itself I wouldn't value it based on its size or on its materials as it has been traditionally done. Instead, I would value it based on the components of a keep. Each component of the keep could be given as treasure, or the PC's could build one for its value.</p><p></p><p>You could imagine each class having a piece of the stronghold to call their own, with assistants to help with rituals, minor tasks, and domain management. In addition each class would gain a mechanical benefit for having that stronghold component equal to what a wondrous magical item would grant. It is hard to justify building a stronghold when you can buy magical items, when the magic items will be the things which you use in the dungeon to help you along or keep you alive.</p><p></p><p> Types of Stronghold Components</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dungeon – Warlock</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">College - Bard</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tower - Wizard</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gymnasium – Fighter</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><p style="text-align: left">Barracks - Warlord<br /> </p> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hideout – Rogues</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Waystation - Ranger</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">? – Avengers</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Temple – Clerics</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Abbey - Paladins</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lyceum - Invokers</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grove – Druid</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lodge – Barbarian</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ancestral Totem - Shaman</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hermitage - Warden</li> </ul><p>I haven't been able to match up all the classes with a stronghold component, and I'm not happy with a couple of the "homes" for a particular class on the list, but you can certainly imagine the capabilities that each of these components to attract appropriate followers and grant a mechanical benefit that the player can take with him outside the stronghold.</p><p></p><p>For example, A warlock would be interested in a "dungeon" stronghold component which grants the services of a bound devil or attracts monstrous humanoids. A rogue would be interested in a "hideout" stronghold component which grants income and rogue followers such as a spy who would provide him with information (reroll streetwise checks), a fence to sell stolen magical items for more than 1/5, or a smuggler which gives him access to black market poisons. A wizard could gain a library and apprentices to help him with knowledge checks or grant a bonus to rituals. A cleric on the other hand could have a chapel that contains a relic (like the demihuman relics from Rules Cyclopedia) and acolytes who serve him as the wizard's apprentices serve her.</p><p></p><p>Why is it important that the stronghold components grant a mechanical advantage useful outside the stronghold? It is not strictly necessary, but partly it is to avoid penalizing players who could be buying magical items, and partly it is to encourage reinvestment in the stronghold and encourage interaction with inhabitants of the stronghold.</p><p></p><p>I'm largely looking for ideas to elaborate this approach to stronghold rules, and perhaps some criticism or some drawbacks to approaching strongholds in this way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 4732495, member: 55966"] I dearly miss the rules for managing a domain, using henchmen and sages, and building a stronghold. I am unsatisfied with rules given in 3e for running a stronghold, as it seemed to be largely vanity to spend money on strongholds when you could be spending that money on magical items that keep you alive in the hack and slash of the DM's dungeons. I also really disliked the rules for getting followers, because you had one follower who doubled your power, and 100 followers who were of no use to you. In prior editions to 3e you gained a stronghold and a domain as part of leveling up. However, If you have an adventure path in which the story doesn't allow for time to stop and build a castle, the rules rather get in the way. There was also the problem that some followers were better than others, but that's neither here nor there. However, I think I have a solution to this problem. Treat strongholds, followers and domains alike as treasure instead of as a class/level ability or a feat. If you do a stronghold as treasure, the DM can give the players a stronghold or a title if it fits the campaign. The domain can produce income for the players and be a source of plot hooks. For the treasure value of the stronghold itself I wouldn't value it based on its size or on its materials as it has been traditionally done. Instead, I would value it based on the components of a keep. Each component of the keep could be given as treasure, or the PC's could build one for its value. You could imagine each class having a piece of the stronghold to call their own, with assistants to help with rituals, minor tasks, and domain management. In addition each class would gain a mechanical benefit for having that stronghold component equal to what a wondrous magical item would grant. It is hard to justify building a stronghold when you can buy magical items, when the magic items will be the things which you use in the dungeon to help you along or keep you alive. Types of Stronghold Components [LIST] [*]Dungeon – Warlock [*]College - Bard [*]Tower - Wizard [*]Gymnasium – Fighter [*][LEFT]Barracks - Warlord [/LEFT] [*]Hideout – Rogues [*]Waystation - Ranger [*]? – Avengers [*]Temple – Clerics [*]Abbey - Paladins [*]Lyceum - Invokers [*]Grove – Druid [*]Lodge – Barbarian [*]Ancestral Totem - Shaman [*]Hermitage - Warden [/LIST] I haven't been able to match up all the classes with a stronghold component, and I'm not happy with a couple of the "homes" for a particular class on the list, but you can certainly imagine the capabilities that each of these components to attract appropriate followers and grant a mechanical benefit that the player can take with him outside the stronghold. For example, A warlock would be interested in a "dungeon" stronghold component which grants the services of a bound devil or attracts monstrous humanoids. A rogue would be interested in a "hideout" stronghold component which grants income and rogue followers such as a spy who would provide him with information (reroll streetwise checks), a fence to sell stolen magical items for more than 1/5, or a smuggler which gives him access to black market poisons. A wizard could gain a library and apprentices to help him with knowledge checks or grant a bonus to rituals. A cleric on the other hand could have a chapel that contains a relic (like the demihuman relics from Rules Cyclopedia) and acolytes who serve him as the wizard's apprentices serve her. Why is it important that the stronghold components grant a mechanical advantage useful outside the stronghold? It is not strictly necessary, but partly it is to avoid penalizing players who could be buying magical items, and partly it is to encourage reinvestment in the stronghold and encourage interaction with inhabitants of the stronghold. I'm largely looking for ideas to elaborate this approach to stronghold rules, and perhaps some criticism or some drawbacks to approaching strongholds in this way. [/QUOTE]
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